To think carers are classed as unskilled but expected to be skilled when things go wrong.

What was the staff ratio in the care home, compared to a live in carer to FIL?

If it was 1:8 in the care home, and now it’s 1:1, that’s why home care costs more?

See I don't get that. You don't know who "the public" are and you can't assume that they will know how to handle any inappropriate behaviour. I also wonder if normalising clients being violent or inappropriate to carers desensitises them and then that affects their expectations of random members of the public.

You can't keep a client safe without taking into account how to behave towards the people they come into contact with.

But surely restraint is a necessary tool then in, as you say, the event of extreme circumstances which presumably would include harming others. In which case strong males would be more suitable than women.

However I did read that carers’ duty is to the client and are not responsible for their interactions with the public - something that needs changing if true.

I’m not saying that private companies making a profit isn’t an issue but I think people underestimate the cost of employees. At min wage having 2 people 24/7 will cost over £4.2k a week. It costs an employer much more than just employees wages holiday pay, pension, NI , paid training etc. My guess would be closer to 6k tbh

My FIL has recently transferred from a care home to a live in carer at his own home. The live in carer is more expensive per week (hes self funding)

I assumed the care home fees covered obviously the caring staff and management, but also cleaners, maintenance, catering (food and staff), utility bills, laundry, entertainment, gardeners etc

Care at home cost more, which im puzzled about when the carer is probably on not much more than minimum wage and a lot of the above costs wont be relevant to his own home.

I don't blame you. It seems like the money's going on the people at the top having multiple luxury properties and cars and not on company sick pay when you were severely injured at work. It's a shame the tories privatised it

No wonder councils have got no money if they are funding this. No one is saying they should be on minimum wage but there's an enormous difference between minimum wage and this sort of lifestyle

That's the problem

thats the issue with society, theres always someone that has to pay, but then everyone is on cheap wages etc we need a better economic model overall

I completely agree. They have to work long hours to make a decent salary. It is very physically demanding and sometimes mentally and emotionally demanding. Dealing with challenging behaviour, rolling very heavy people in bed, or pushing them in wheelchairs.. there is no device to ease the physical demands this places on the carer. Many have bad backs/knees etc Working 12 hour shifts with one half hour break. Caring for people at the end of their lives, finding a resident has passed away, preparing them for the undertaker …Carers carry out many tasks which a lot of people wouldn’t want to do especially when you can get the same money working in Asda. It’s time it was recognised as skilled work. Some of the care homes I have experienced with DPs have managers galore but the carers, at the coal face, are thin on the ground and run ragged which makes the job even harder.

The conditions and treatment are shit too.
I did for three years for adults with learning disability and challenging behaviours and it was constant under staffing meaning I was doing work in often unsafe conditions, limited annual leave availability which coupled with unsocial hours meant missing birthday parties, Christmas parties, celebrations, etc., long shifts, and management who were completely out of touch with the realities of the job. And you're doing all this for basically minimum wage which means that the right people don't stay in the role.

You cannot restrain patients unless there are extreme circumstances, even then it’s very rare. It opens the doors to abuse.

It’s not deliberate tbh I don’t feel targeted. I wear clothes to cover my arms etc but sometimes it’s just too hot.

we don’t restrain our service users unless they are in danger or a danger to others. We have male staff but it really makes no difference to me if I am working with male or female residents

I am always covered in bruises and scratches.

• you sound like a very good person- but is there no way you could be protected from injuries? Could you not be given more robust clothing or similar to protect you?

Do you think more male carers would help as, as pp said, they would be stronger physically and better able to restrain patients?

This.
I've read of female care workers being sexually harassed or even assaulted by male patients with dementia, so male carers would also be good for this reason.

I wonder if part of the reason people resist male carers is that women are more likely to live longer so relatives in nursing homes are more likely to be female and thus they want female carers. Some elderly men might prefer female carers also especially as traditionally personal care was seen as a woman's role.

It's still physically wearing but yes, hoists should be being used in homes. I am a carer for a relative myself, they are quite overweight and even though I have someone to help me I would probably have terrible back injuries without a hoist.

A lot of elderly people are small and light from muscle wastage but lifting day in & day out would still take its toll.

No, not hoisting etc. Restraining or being able to stage an intervention if necessary, especially if out and about. I have witnessed several occasions when female carers were unable to stop male clients doing whatever. If you had more male carers then a) public would be safer and b) those being cared for might be able to go out more.

It's true, I was surprised at the difference between when I worked in care in 2008-2010ish and my friend's dad's home last year. We were still picking people up under their arms back then. Now it's stand-aids and sara steadies, and glide sheets and beds that actually come up to the carer's height. We never had anything like that 15 years ago. Maybe we should have done, but instead we just broke our backs!

You dont need physical strength for care work, they dont go around lifting people anymore

Well, not men delivering personal care to women - of course that is inappropriate - I was thinking more of dealing with unpredictable and/or strong people, eg the crocodile incident man.

It may be in some care homes; but some care homes are for working age adults with a particular medical condition.

We don’t want men delivering personal care, such as bathing and helping our daughter get dressed. She is in her thirties. We are more bothered about potential sex abuse, which we know happens sometimes. The risk assessment for her recognises that she is very vulnerable.

When I worked in mental health care here were lots of lads. Probably a 50/50 split. Maybe leaning slightly towards lads

But regardless, you don't have to be large, or particularly strong. The days of lifting are gone. You don't even help people stand. It's all strictly hoists and stand-aids and Sara Steadies.

Some people are demanding saints: a vocation for the work, kindness, empathy, patience, sense of humour.. where are all these people even if the pay were £100k a year? And even then, you’d have to further eliminate those who were physically too small or slight to do the job. So you’re looking for strapping carers with all the soft skills too. I said on another thread that boys could be encouraged into care work, and posters were flapping about against it, but I think especially mental health care work could suit some lads.

The bottom line is though that these are not appealing jobs. In the pils’ nursing home were just people who had very advanced dementia. The work had little skill, really or reward. Just feeding and cleaning. There are a couple of secure mental homes near me: the staff seem to be (from the bus stop!) largely sub-Saharan men. I’m sure they’re not loving the job but they are large which is obviously a key requirement.

If it was paid properly, they would not have to recruit from abroad

They absolutely are not able to bring home care in house. Thatcher and the conservatives made everything private over the last 30 years. In terms of residential, they dont have the buildings, they were forced to sell them by the government