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Anyone else in the South East worried about Andy Burnham bringing in a land tax?

944 replies

Beachbooks · 22/06/2026 12:17

With it looking likely that Andy Burnhan will be the next PM, I was interested to see if anyone else in London / the south east were worried about potential tax raises specifically around the land tax rather than stamp duty ?

A lot of my friends who live locally are worrying that he will make the land tax for the South East so high in proportion to other areas of the UK that it will be financially very difficult to afford but then also extremely difficult to sell!!

BTW we have very standard house and garden but we live in an expensive area

OP posts:
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EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 18:14

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 18:11

But no one has suggested that this will happen. We do not know how the transition will work.

Hopefully there won’t be a transition and what was said today will be it.

Such a shame posters are so gung go on pricing normal jobs out of London.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 18:11

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 18:01

Of course this is screwing people over
and no. There is no extra money to be made on this. That’s not the reason.

The most important thing is that people are treated fairly
not that we sacrifice such a large proportion of the population
Now that’s good Governing.
Any idiot can steal off others and tell them to just go into debt

Edited

But no one has suggested that this will happen. We do not know how the transition will work.

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 18:01

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:55

Why not trust that no one is trying to screw you over? Perhaps you will thrive economically if the country finds its financial feet again, and be better off overall. Isn’t that the most important thing?

Of course this is screwing people over
and no. There is no extra money to be made on this. That’s not the reason.

The most important thing is that people are treated fairly
not that we sacrifice such a large proportion of the population
Now that’s good Governing.
Any idiot can steal off others and tell them to just go into debt

Noce · 29/06/2026 18:01

That would be awful. I live in Scotland, in a decent sized house which costs less than most 1 bed flats in London . IT would be super unfair for people who already are stretched financially to be taxed even more

suburburban · 29/06/2026 17:59

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:55

Why not trust that no one is trying to screw you over? Perhaps you will thrive economically if the country finds its financial feet again, and be better off overall. Isn’t that the most important thing?

I don’t trust AB as far as I can throw him,

we are going to be moving this year and paying SD which they have already made more expensive recently so they will already have had a fair wack from us so i certainly won’t want to be paying more than normal council tax

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:57

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:55

Why not trust that no one is trying to screw you over? Perhaps you will thrive economically if the country finds its financial feet again, and be better off overall. Isn’t that the most important thing?

If other cities create more opportunities then demand in London falls. It’s much less divisive and better for everyone.

People not in finance still get the chance to thrive in London. And in other cities, more people stay there and prosper.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:55

suburburban · 29/06/2026 17:50

We are ordinary people but were born before 2000

Why not trust that no one is trying to screw you over? Perhaps you will thrive economically if the country finds its financial feet again, and be better off overall. Isn’t that the most important thing?

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 17:53

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:47

I don’t think this will happen. It hasn’t happened in NYC.

.The Overall Tax Burden: NYC has some of the highest combined state and local tax burdens in the US, forcing residents to relocate to lower-cost states or nearby hubs like New Jersey

plus
Outer areas have a higher rate of property tax
Very different from the proposals here in that respect

suburburban · 29/06/2026 17:50

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:46

Wait and see what those widows are offered. People do move house in old age all the time. Either they are frail and get a more manageable place, or they are not and they cope.

If we get the economy moving wages will rise. Ordinary people will be able to afford (outer) London. Property taxes have been no bar to much better wages in America than here, for trained workers. OTOH it would be good for the country to spread the jobs around.

We are ordinary people but were born before 2000

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:49

Cities like London thrive on people who aren’t only the rich. Creative people and companies. Teachers and doctors.

Madness to want to make it even more inaccessible.

Hopefully Burnham will just stick to what was said today on fostering the growth of those things everywhere rather than appeal to this kind of politics.

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 17:49

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:39

As I am now saying for the fifth or sixth* time and anyone like you reading the thread ought to know, property taxes are phased in carefully. There is often protection for hardship cases.

No one is expected to come up with tens of thousands within the space of a few months.
Yes, sometimes people the world over do move if they cannot eventually develop a way to pay their property taxes. As @araminta says, it is a chokehold on the economy to have people stuck in expensive houses if they cannot afford to spend reasonably.

People in expensive properties can spend just as reasonably as those not
and even be less of a financial burden on the state

I’ve already proved the tax take upthread

I m sure if everyone was getting a massive uplift
the idea that it won’t happen straight away,
it will be gradually introduced, people should move if they can’t afford it and
you can always borrow with interest
wouldn’t be seen on here

Everyone would be up in arms
because it would affect everyone. When it affects 1/39
who cares 😳

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:47

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:46

Of course not. Making London only for the rich enough doesn’t help people. Why would you want that?

I don’t think this will happen. It hasn’t happened in NYC.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:46

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:34

People don’t get used to it they just go through financial stress and get priced out. The elderly widows on my street for example won’t get used to it, they won’t have the disposable income. Nor the people without high incomes.

London and other regions become more inaccessible to those in various normal jobs.

Wait and see what those widows are offered. People do move house in old age all the time. Either they are frail and get a more manageable place, or they are not and they cope.

If we get the economy moving wages will rise. Ordinary people will be able to afford (outer) London. Property taxes have been no bar to much better wages in America than here, for trained workers. OTOH it would be good for the country to spread the jobs around.

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:46

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:39

As I am now saying for the fifth or sixth* time and anyone like you reading the thread ought to know, property taxes are phased in carefully. There is often protection for hardship cases.

No one is expected to come up with tens of thousands within the space of a few months.
Yes, sometimes people the world over do move if they cannot eventually develop a way to pay their property taxes. As @araminta says, it is a chokehold on the economy to have people stuck in expensive houses if they cannot afford to spend reasonably.

Of course not. Making London only for the rich enough doesn’t help people. Why would you want that?

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:39

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 16:08

As @NorthXNorthWestasked below but was unanswered as seemingly too hard, how will people paying the actual money isn’t there

It’s not disposable income and many are stretched already. As for people ‘wining’ well it’s up to politicians to deliver. If they don’t they get ousted as happily people still get a vote.

As I am now saying for the fifth or sixth* time and anyone like you reading the thread ought to know, property taxes are phased in carefully. There is often protection for hardship cases.

No one is expected to come up with tens of thousands within the space of a few months.
Yes, sometimes people the world over do move if they cannot eventually develop a way to pay their property taxes. As @araminta says, it is a chokehold on the economy to have people stuck in expensive houses if they cannot afford to spend reasonably.

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 17:34

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:01

People the world over have got used to property taxes particularly when phased in properly. Lack of stamp duty (see above) which seems likely to be part of a revenue-exchange programme will also help.

People don’t get used to it they just go through financial stress and get priced out. The elderly widows on my street for example won’t get used to it, they won’t have the disposable income. Nor the people without high incomes.

London and other regions become more inaccessible to those in various normal jobs.

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 17:30

nearlylovemyusername · 29/06/2026 16:49

I posted these calcs above, but let me try again:

Proposed tax on 3m x 0.48% is 14.4k pa

Let's assume current council tax is 2.6k pa
Let's assume this house price dropped to 2.5m for your high earners to buy, so SDLT would be 214k.

This will take more than 15 year to collect the same amount of tax as per current system.
So in order to not lose money Andy has to ignore SDLT already paid by current home owners and apply it to everyone.

But given that houses would be evaluated on a regular basis I'd be very wary to buy a more expensive one, even as a family of higher earners, because the amounts involved are huge and unpredictable.
And with London being a scapegoat for the entire country, whilst being the only net contributing region, the tax collected will be redistributed, so Londoners will pay much higher taxes just for the sake of living in London and services not improved. I really do not see the appeal for younger families here.

That house price dropping to £2.5mill also means less tax
plus the loss of stamp

Its a downward spiral

and that’s before we take into account those who’ve recently bought and stuck in negative equity.
The older ones on here will remember that fallout

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 29/06/2026 17:21

KeepPumping · 29/06/2026 16:08

Demand was falling long before he brought this tax back up though, can"t see it being a massive game changer really, rates are still heading up IMO. His speech today mentioned really vital things like having "Number 10" in the North, no mention of immigration though? LOL, they have the blinkers on with bags over their heads, they are just going to continue being useless until Reform take over.

Yes he’s blinkered.
I thoroughly agree but I hope Reform never get it
They'll never get my vote at least

suburburban · 29/06/2026 17:20

I’d rather pay council tax which I always have done since 1991 and SD than this thievery

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:12

Also, @nearlylovemyusername , remember that many more parcels of land will be taxed, that are not currently taxed - eg undeveloped land owned by builders.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:10

nearlylovemyusername · 29/06/2026 17:04

I know. That's exactly what I'm saying - that it will take over 15 years of 0.48% to bring the same amount of tax as SDLT+current council tax on a house in Araminta's example. For cheaper properties it will take 20-25 years.
So the only way to make the numbers work is to impose LVT on the houses which have paid SDLT already.

@Araminta1003 The point is there are billions and billions stuck in generational property wealth and IHT threshold is very high and only a minority pay it AND main residence capital gains tax exemption is internationally anomalous.
Google IHT rates and scope - very few countries, at least in Europe, have IHT at all, many abolished it many years ago. Those which still have IHT have comparable threshold but way much lower rate. So we are an anomaly by a large margin and not in a good way. I think what should be done is to abolish IHT but apply CGT on assets. This would tackle unearned wealth, but wouldn't tax the same money twice. Or indeed apply a "levy" but at a much lower rate, 10% seems reasonable, but on all estates with no threshold.

Well you need a starting point. We must see what details professionals devise.

The policy need only be revenue neutral overall, not for each house separately.

nearlylovemyusername · 29/06/2026 17:04

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 16:57

The 0.48% was chosen to be revenue neutral against the combination of stamp duty and council tax.

Council tax would not be owed.

I know. That's exactly what I'm saying - that it will take over 15 years of 0.48% to bring the same amount of tax as SDLT+current council tax on a house in Araminta's example. For cheaper properties it will take 20-25 years.
So the only way to make the numbers work is to impose LVT on the houses which have paid SDLT already.

@Araminta1003 The point is there are billions and billions stuck in generational property wealth and IHT threshold is very high and only a minority pay it AND main residence capital gains tax exemption is internationally anomalous.
Google IHT rates and scope - very few countries, at least in Europe, have IHT at all, many abolished it many years ago. Those which still have IHT have comparable threshold but way much lower rate. So we are an anomaly by a large margin and not in a good way. I think what should be done is to abolish IHT but apply CGT on assets. This would tackle unearned wealth, but wouldn't tax the same money twice. Or indeed apply a "levy" but at a much lower rate, 10% seems reasonable, but on all estates with no threshold.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 17:01

EasternStandard · 29/06/2026 16:08

As @NorthXNorthWestasked below but was unanswered as seemingly too hard, how will people paying the actual money isn’t there

It’s not disposable income and many are stretched already. As for people ‘wining’ well it’s up to politicians to deliver. If they don’t they get ousted as happily people still get a vote.

People the world over have got used to property taxes particularly when phased in properly. Lack of stamp duty (see above) which seems likely to be part of a revenue-exchange programme will also help.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 16:57

nearlylovemyusername · 29/06/2026 16:49

I posted these calcs above, but let me try again:

Proposed tax on 3m x 0.48% is 14.4k pa

Let's assume current council tax is 2.6k pa
Let's assume this house price dropped to 2.5m for your high earners to buy, so SDLT would be 214k.

This will take more than 15 year to collect the same amount of tax as per current system.
So in order to not lose money Andy has to ignore SDLT already paid by current home owners and apply it to everyone.

But given that houses would be evaluated on a regular basis I'd be very wary to buy a more expensive one, even as a family of higher earners, because the amounts involved are huge and unpredictable.
And with London being a scapegoat for the entire country, whilst being the only net contributing region, the tax collected will be redistributed, so Londoners will pay much higher taxes just for the sake of living in London and services not improved. I really do not see the appeal for younger families here.

The 0.48% was chosen to be revenue neutral against the combination of stamp duty and council tax.

Council tax would not be owed.

poetryandwine · 29/06/2026 16:50

NorthXNorthWest · 29/06/2026 14:30

Anyhoo...

Moving on from the curve "who shall not be named" by "serious" and "all" economists...

Your argument is that it's fair because the property is desirable and the tax is hard to avoid.

Really? Those are your acid tests for fairness? We're talking about an annual tax that can rise year after year on an unrealised gain.

So, after all that blustering about "serious economists", mathematics and your PhD, that's really the best you've got? That people should pay an ever-increasing annual tax on an unrealised gain because they happen to live in an area society considers desirable and because it's easy to collect?

And apparently, if that causes financial hardship, so people have to move or take on debt, that's just acceptable collateral damage?

There was me thinking this was supposed to be a wealth tax based on fairness.

You pedantically picked apart my words whilst questioning my intellectual capability, and that of others. And they say a good education is never wasted...

"it's a desirable area" and "it's easy to collect."

My post above was for @NorthXNorthWest in response to this quote.

I had asked for something substantive in response instead of a personal attack. Each may judge whether I got it.

For the record, I do think a transparent LVT, properly phased in (as I’ve now said four times) that is easy to enforce and hard to dodge, is a pretty good ‘wealth tax based on fairness’ as @NorthXNorthWest seems to find theoretically acceptable.