To ask why there are no riots?

I think you're thinking of this in too simplistic of terms, like they just fear that someone will say 'you're racist'.

But it's nowhere near as simple,these people lack integrity, they don't want to rock the boat, they follow the culture rather than their oath, they take the easy way out, they worry about the consequences for themselves rather than doing the right thing. If they know they're not being racist but fear that they will look racist or that someone will call them racist to shut them down they just do nothing.

To me it is an explanation because many people are like that. Many people are followers and sheep, many people lack integrity etc unfortunately that is just how many people are. It's not an exciting explanation, it's just how a lot of people are unfortunately.

As I said I don't think a lack of integrity excuses a person in any way even if the majority of other people also lacked integrity.

Another aspect of it is that they were apparently concerned about causing racial tension, with that added aspect they could tell themselves they were actually doing the right thing, even if they wanted to help these girls the consequences for society would be dire so they essentially let the girls become collateral damage.

I think it's different if it's an individual crime rather than a widespread organised crime gang and they would have felt far more confident about doing their jobs when it came to investigating other crimes, that was far less likely to cause unrest in the area and if you're apprehending one suspect as opposed to saying there's gangs and gangs of these men from a certain country then people are far less likely to be trying to shut it down by making out it's 'racism'.

The grooming gangs targeted non white girls too who never came forward because of fear of shame.
Targeted the most vulnerable.
They should be held accountable.
Be given the severest punishment available.
This should be applied to all such criminals whether they are white, non white, British non British, LGBQT or straight.

I think that the crimes that capture the public attention / have them clamouring for change tend to have a sliding doors element to them. So if the perpetrator was an immigrant / descendant of immigrant, then if they hadn’t been allowed to stay then that crime wouldn’t of happened so if you prevent one you stop the other.

Reality is child sex abuse has been endemic in the UK for a long time. Children’s homes, boarding schools, religious institutions, the BBC. When I was a kid in the 80s it was well known that there was sex abuse within the community. So and so had a funny uncle or someone’s Dad was “a bit off” and you weren’t allowed to go to their house . It wasn’t overtly discussed just swept under the rug.

There have always been men who’ve lured girls into awful situations and abused them after doping them up with drugs / alchohol and sold them to others. The police/ social services put this down to choices when you’re poor and come from somewhere a big rough. Then they are older and they criminalise the victim with charges of solicitation etc.

I think this is more shocking to people who haven’t been exposed to the dark underbelly of society. That this happens atall plus the sliding doors element of preventable means it gets more public attention.

The cps will tell you that the focus on rape cases that they believe will get a result so you a need “perfect victim” and a perpetrator whose filmed themselves/ serial offender / stranger. Women and girls who’ve been victims of prior child sex abuse will often fail the perfect victim test as it’d played out as prior high risk sexual behaviour whilst under influence of drugs and/ or alcohol.

If we actually locked up everyone who was guilty of a sex based offence . I think we’d be looking at a significant proportion of the male population tbh.

For me that’s not an explanation at all, it’s an excuse because it just doesn’t explain the action. Again taking the apparent claim from the report that police were informed of a crime, had evidence and arrested a perpetrator for crimes including sexual abuse and (potentially) the murder of a baby. Police saying they let the perpetrators go because they feared being called racist simply does not explain their action. Even if we consider it explains an aspect of it, it’s nowhere close to sufficient.

Did they let ethnic minority perpetrators of all crimes walk away during that time? Or just grooming suspects? If not, why were they unafraid of being called racist in those cases?

I have not but I will have a look.

And can I just say, it doesn’t appear on the surface like you and I are on exactly the same page with all this but it’s bloody refreshing to have a rational conversation about it!

I cited the figure to provide impact I guess. Maybe that was wrong. I’m sure the report isn’t without fault. Maybe there is a political agenda there, I won’t discount that possibility. But just the sheer fact it’s been allowed to go on for so long, and is seemingly still happening today, and so little has been done about it makes me froth with rage. Reading the victims testimonies was upsetting.

I suppose if it was politically motivated and numbers have been inflated and the report did choose to ignore non white victims or white perpetrators that just makes me even more angry. Angry that so many girls were let down and suffered the way they did and one of the only times this was brought to light was by someone with an agenda. But that is not going to convince me to dismiss the report in its entirety.

The reason I am so certain about the attacks on the victims being racially motivated is down to the victims’ testimonies. They nearly all state this to be the case. That they were told that raping white girls doesn’t count because they are slags and impure, referred to as pig dogs etc. the report also states that an overwhelming majority of perpetrators were/are Pakistani Muslims. Now I understand that if the data they have collected is not 100% accurate (and how can it be) then these figures can also said to not be accurate. This is another argument for collecting better data on ethnicity/nationality with regards to crime.

But I do have to say that to me, it is almost logical that the report came to this conclusion. Possibly it plays in to my fear that importing so many men from countries that have such ingrained misogyny that it is culturally acceptable can only ever end one way.

My thoughts and feelings on this are not racially motivated. They’re not even really politically motivated, they come from a place of being incensed with anger that women and girls are let down time and again just when you think sexual equality is a thing.

I was looking for some data and found this site - haven’t seen it before, have you @TheGreatDownandOut https://groominggangs.uk/ It doesn’t look super comprehensive but maybe new?

It’s one of the things I am most pissed off about - the woefully low conviction rates seemingly across the board. Those poor girls that were raped and brought their attackers to court who subsequently were let off with a slap on the wrist because the judge didn’t want to ruin their futures. It made me sick with rage. Just as this grooming gangs case did. At least they’re looking in to the sentencing this time.

@TheGreatDownandOut

I think you’re entitled to your view on the method, and I assume you are comfortable with it since you’ve cited the figure the report uses.

Even 1 victim is too many, but I think it is important that we don’t inflate figures to create impact. That is not in service of the victims, that is only in service of the authors. The Lowe report chose not to hear from anyone other than white victims of Pakistani perpetrators. At the very least they should revise their estimate to include only the women they care about. The problem is that there isn’t enough or good enough data to know the true figure, so there’s a gap for those with an agenda to exploit.

I think you’re right that we can never know the true motivations of all the authorities who horrendously let the victims down. And that there are going to be multiple motivations amongst any pool of people.

I wonder why you are then so certain that the perpetrators specifically abused the victims because they were white? For one thing, not all the victims were white, and not all perpetrators were non-white - the Casey review was very clear on that. But again, the poor data means it’s difficult to evidence the spread of ethnicity for either victims or perpetrators.

We also know that rape is rarely prosecuted and convicted no matter who the perpetrator is. Whether it's British culture behind it or something else that means perpetrators arent held accountable I don't know.

It's scary how silent people are on that though, why the silence again maybe it's just British culture? Clamouring for rape gangs to be held accountable but absolute silence and acceptance from those same people on overall statistics that mean only 2% of rapists at a push no matter their race or ethnicity will be convicted.

And to add in, of course the story you linked is horrifying. It doesn’t make the rape gangs we were talking about any less horrifying. We know that indigenous white men are capable of rape. We also know that Muslim men are capable of rape. All rape is equally wrong regardless of who the perpetrators are or who the victims are. The only difference is how you would address the root of the problem and how you would punish the perpetrators.

As demonstrated above, even more annoying is claiming you think or have said things you haven’t in order to force you to play in the emotive when you are trying to play in the rational.

Me “Look at this case that wasn’t picked up by the media OP”
Poster above “oh so you’re saying that all Muslims should be stabbed??”

Or the other one I have encountered

Me “I do not think we should be allowing thousands of undocumented male migrants in to the country”
Them “oh so you think they should all be drowned in the sea then??”

It’s not even word twisting, it’s like they’re trying to speak my words for me rather than actually listening to what I am saying

The fact you've asked that tells me not to waste my typing time.

Please quote where I have said that Muslims should be stabbed because of the grooming gangs? I will save you some time, you can’t because I have never said that because I do not think that.

It’s entirely relevant because OP is convinced that this story is getting so little media attention because the thug is white and his victims were brown. Several of us have used the grooming gangs example to show that there is still media silence when is brown people attacking white. Only this was on a much bigger scale, was covered up by nearly every institution involved and fuck all has been done about it AND it’s still happening today.

Even more annoying is their blatant disregard for the calculation of per capita.

Ok, I’ll bite. What “authoritarian and dictatorial” behaviour are you referring to?

One of the things that really annoys me about so many of the so called ‘left’ is the total lack of moral consistency. Outrage is only reserved for a certain type of victim and condemnation uttered only for a certain type of perpetrator.

Why is that important for OP to do on a post about Muslims being stabbed. Unless you are suggesting that Muslims should be stabbed because of the grooming gangs?

I’d suggest you are rather making the OP’s point. It’s ok for white people to do these things, but not the other way round.

I expect you weren’t up in arms about this either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2dxj570n21o

I'm waiting for her to explain why so called anti-fascists exhibit authoritarian and dictatorial behavior. They are meant to be the antithesis of what they oppose but have ended up replicating and reconstructing fascism. Funny that.

You are arguing that if I don't condemn a Musk, I am automatically guilty of associating with their worst alleged traits. In my perspective you can judge ideas and actions on their own merits without passing total moral judgment on the individual as a whole,

Oh look, OP is back and still refusing to engage in a discussion about the rape gangs. Colour me surprised.

I am not qualified to say whether the method used was reliable or not. I’m far more incensed by the fact that that have to estimate it in the first place simply because so many of the victims were ignored and probably so many never bothered to speak up. Whether the true number is 50,000 or 5 million, it’s still an abhorrent thing to have happened on such a huge scale.

We can’t know 100% whether victims were let down by various institutions because people were afraid to be seen as racist. Many of the victims themselves believe that to be the reason but the cover up is on such a huge scale that there could be several different motivations. It could be not wanting to be seen as racist, others maybe it was just plain old fashioned misogyny, maybe some were incompetent, maybe some were fundamentalist Muslims themselves and didn’t see anything wrong with it.

What we can be absolutely sure of though is that these girls were targetted and attacked because a. They are female b. They are white c. The attackers believed (whether you want to cite cultural or religious beliefs) that they were entitled to treat them this way. To be quite frank, Muslim men attacking white girls in the name of their religion and getting away with it on a mass scale.

I'm not saying that people should accept it as a get out of jail free card or anything like that if that's what you mean.

Personally I don't care if someone is afraid to say something because they didn't want to be called racist or called something else, they should have done the right thing regardless of what they may be called.

Again I'm dealing with something somewhat similar and I want accountability from people who should have done the right thing but didn't and I am pushing and pushing for that, and if any of them try to use fear as an explanation that's fine because I do think that's the explanation, but it doesn't mean i accept it as a valid excuse for why they failed in their duty, it's just the explanation for it.

An explanation is not the same as an excuse.

So what are you proposing to do about stamping out those who want to cancel free speech? An anti-fascist surely would be open to new ideas. Are you saying every single person on the left holds those values?

But don’t you think that accepting that excuse - ‘I didn’t do anything because I was scared people would think I was racist’ - is awfully convenient for people who failed in their duty?

I’ve no doubt people try to use the excuse, I’m just questioning the wisdom of giving that credence. I think that contributes to an atmosphere where people do start to doubt and fear what can be said.

I agree that people often want to hold onto their beliefs even when confronted with evidence to the contrary, but that applies equally to everyone, it’s a human brain thing not a political thing.