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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to advise anyone who is ever rude to stay out of Germany?

220 replies

Zebrasarecooler · 19/06/2026 19:34

I've just come across a German law which says that if you insult someone and they report you you'll be prosecuted. Punishment is up to one year in prison, or up to two years if you insulted the person in public or in a group setting. Or a fine.
In case people think that this only applies to really serious insults, here's some advice from a German law firm:

Examples of criminal insults:

VERBAL INSULTS:
Calling someone an ‘arsehole’, ‘idiot’, ‘slut’ or ‘scumbag’.
A member of the public calls a police officer on duty a ‘cop scum’.
An employee calls their line manager a ‘loser’ during a meeting.

GESTURES AND ACTIONS:
Giving the middle finger whilst driving.
Making an obscene gesture during an altercation.
Spitting at someone’s feet.

INSULTS ONLINE:
Defamatory comments on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.
Sharing defamatory memes or caricatures.
Insults in WhatsApp groups.

OP posts:
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6
Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 22:16

Complete freedom of speech would be everyone being allowed to say / communicate anything they want at any time. We don't have that in the UK. For instance it's a crime to give a speech seriously encouraging people to kill [category of people you don't like]. But it's not a crime to tell someone who's bumped into you in the street that he's an idiot. Whereas you could be prosecuted for that in Germany, at the behest of the person you've insulted. And apparently you can have a civil action brought against you too (I haven't looked into that, but I've seen it mentioned). It would be interesting to see what else is against the law.

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Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 22:06

HaveYouFedTheFish · 23/06/2026 18:24

Where are you reading all this? In what language?

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In German.

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GilesTurnbull · 23/06/2026 18:45

It seems like a good idea to instill a culture of non acceptance toward verbal abuse.

however. The fact that group rape receives a suspended sentence suggests that something is terribly wrong with the justice system there, as it is here.

HaveYouFedTheFish · 23/06/2026 18:38

The public order act (1986) allows people to be prosecuted for insulting others (anyone, including but not limited to police officers) in public.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/types-crime/verbal-abuse-and-harassment-public

Verbal abuse and harassment in public | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/types-crime/verbal-abuse-and-harassment-public

HaveYouFedTheFish · 23/06/2026 18:24

Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 18:20

I find that very hard to believe. The cases I've looked at on this talk about balancing the insult against freedom of speech. It's accepted that having this as a crime involves a loss of freedom of speech.

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Where are you reading all this? In what language?

Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 18:20

clountain · 23/06/2026 17:27

We still have freedom of speech in Germnay. So if you insult someone, you just have to state it as your opinion (I.e. I think he’s a cunt) rather than a fact (i.e. he‘s a cunt)

I find that very hard to believe. The cases I've looked at on this talk about balancing the insult against freedom of speech. It's accepted that having this as a crime involves a loss of freedom of speech.

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workinghardhardlyworking · 23/06/2026 17:35

I knew someone who was admonished by the policeman for saying: "hätte hätte fahrradkette" in frustration. This was seen as disrespectful. There is no direct translation; it kind of means that the policeman was being absurd. So yes you want to be careful about being polite to the police in germany.

clountain · 23/06/2026 17:27

We still have freedom of speech in Germnay. So if you insult someone, you just have to state it as your opinion (I.e. I think he’s a cunt) rather than a fact (i.e. he‘s a cunt)

Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 16:20

Some people are comparing this to the UK's "hate crime incidents", which related only to alleged abuse etc against certain protected groups (seemed to be used a lot by trans complainants). Hate crime incidents were abused by the police and I understand have now been discontinued in England. Hate crime incidents were not criminal offences though, and did not attract a fine, let alone imprisonment. The person's name was recorded. But that was bad enough and was taken advantage of. I'm glad it's gone, though it's still there in Scotland I think.

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Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 16:16

BertieBotts · 21/06/2026 11:45

I've also heard (on a different German podcast) that it's a criminal offence to use "du" when speaking to a policeman. You know that the Germans use "du" ("you") for friends and family and "Sie" (the more formal version of "you") for other people.

Depends on context. Essentially if you're a foreigner and mixing up du/Sie out of lack of understanding of the language they are unlikely to react to this.

OTOH if someone is deliberately being mocking to the police I think you'd find things escalating regardless of the country you happen to be in. Essentially similar to if you had a young cocky lad addressing a female police officer as "love" in a derogatory way. It's hard to explain what inappropriate use of du is like, because there is no real equivalent in English. But doing this on purpose essentially conveys a lack of respect, like you're dismissing the person as being beneath you in social standing. I suppose perhaps the closest example in English would be someone shouting at a police officer "I pay your wages!"

You can't be prosecuted for telling a police officer that you pay their wages. That's the key difference here.

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Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 16:14

KeptWomanSummer · 21/06/2026 13:11

I mean I don’t do this anyway. And the world would be a better place if people didn’t.

So I don’t see the issue. I already liked Germany, now it’s gone up further in my estimations.

Are you the kind of person who contacts the council every time their neighbour sneezes?
You should try Switzerland - I hear there are lots of lovely rules there.

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Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 16:13

Bollihobs · 21/06/2026 13:18

Is that really how our "hate speech" laws work? I don't think that's the rules the Police follow. 🤔

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You don't get into trouble in the UK just by swearing at someone, calling them an idiot or a loser, etc. There is no UK equivalent of this German law. Nor should there be in my view. Certain types of people would have a field day with it.

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Original poster
Zebrasarecooler · 23/06/2026 16:10

HelenaWaiting · 21/06/2026 13:28

I've been to Germany many, many times, and, as previously established, I'm a gobshite. No one ever bothered to arrest me though.

The point is that you're at the mercy of the person you insult. You're obviously much more likely to be prosecuted if that person actually knows who you are and where you live, as they have to go to the police and make a formal complaint. Otherwise, they'd presumably have to grab a nearby policeman to get your personal details.

This is from a German gang rape case in 2024. A large group of men repeatedly raped a drunk 15 year old in a park:

"Eight of the nine men convicted of raping a 15-year-old girl will not have to go to prison; they were given suspended sentences. A young woman, on the other hand, was sentenced to community service: she had insulted one of the men on WhatsApp."

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HelenaWaiting · 21/06/2026 13:28

I've been to Germany many, many times, and, as previously established, I'm a gobshite. No one ever bothered to arrest me though.

BlessedAreThePureOfHeart · 21/06/2026 13:26

ThePeppyOpalScroller · 20/06/2026 05:40

You think that's bad, try Mauritius. They have laws protecting retail workers. Even rolling your eyes at a checkout assistant is an offence. Displaying any anger or frustration at a shop worker is illegal. There are signs in the shops detailing the list of things you cant do.

This is awesome! Think I'll see if I can transfer there 🤣

HaveYouFedTheFish · 21/06/2026 13:19

Anarchy99 · 20/06/2026 05:30

So everyone walks around with their rage bottled up because they can’t even stick the finger up at someone who is being a twat? Fuck that!

Outside of discrimination etc why are people’s words being policed like that? I don’t want to live in a world that has shit like this going on.

They aren't - I brought teenagers up in Germany and never heard of this law! Gwrmans swear a lot. They especially use English swearwords because swearing in a foreign language (albeit one heard constantly in songs/ media) is somehow not as bad. German teens are far more likely to use the word fuck or motherfucker than their native English speaking peers (if you compare like for like - teens from similar backgrounds etc.) but they wouldn't use the German equivalent in the same context.

Not swearing at people is a good thing, but I don't think the reason people don't walk around calling their bosses losers during meetings or passwers by arseholes is a law - do people in your life regularly do those things? People refered to others with insulting terms probably more frequently than is my experience in the UK - though no, they don't swear at each other - but neither do the people I know in the UK...

Bollihobs · 21/06/2026 13:18

SomeGarlic · 20/06/2026 05:46

I think it's terrible! Germany and Mauritius. It's not normal to force people not to show displeasure. Agree it's likely to provoke more repressed anger, which may break out later, and more grumbling behind people's backs.

If these laws are enforced, one obvious result would be people using language more creatively. You could end up with a goddamn thesaurus of prohibited words & phrases.

Are these standalone laws - merely saying/doing the thing is illegal - or are they more like our 'hate speech' laws, which are only supposed to kick in if you assault the person?

Is that really how our "hate speech" laws work? I don't think that's the rules the Police follow. 🤔

KeptWomanSummer · 21/06/2026 13:11

I mean I don’t do this anyway. And the world would be a better place if people didn’t.

So I don’t see the issue. I already liked Germany, now it’s gone up further in my estimations.

BertieBotts · 21/06/2026 11:45

I've also heard (on a different German podcast) that it's a criminal offence to use "du" when speaking to a policeman. You know that the Germans use "du" ("you") for friends and family and "Sie" (the more formal version of "you") for other people.

Depends on context. Essentially if you're a foreigner and mixing up du/Sie out of lack of understanding of the language they are unlikely to react to this.

OTOH if someone is deliberately being mocking to the police I think you'd find things escalating regardless of the country you happen to be in. Essentially similar to if you had a young cocky lad addressing a female police officer as "love" in a derogatory way. It's hard to explain what inappropriate use of du is like, because there is no real equivalent in English. But doing this on purpose essentially conveys a lack of respect, like you're dismissing the person as being beneath you in social standing. I suppose perhaps the closest example in English would be someone shouting at a police officer "I pay your wages!"

GhostOrchid · 21/06/2026 11:44

DH is currently reading German Men Sit Down To Pee which is a light-hearted at all these little cultural differences. The requirement to always wait for the green man is mentioned on the back.

dont even get me on shelf toilets! Although I think these are now being phased out.

Igneococcus · 21/06/2026 11:18

Igneococcus · 21/06/2026 09:52

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60130082

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Quoting my own post @EvieBB because I realized the BBC link still contains the claim that razorblades have been put underneath posters and stickers (to harm people who are trying to remove them). There is no evidence that this has ever happened. It's shocking but not surprising that the BBC never corrected or updated this.

HoppityBun · 21/06/2026 09:53

Theyreeatingthedogs · 20/06/2026 22:06

I was in Brisbane and I crossed the road. A policeman made me go back and wait for the green signal!!!!!

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We have an unwritten constitution in the UK and I regard it as my constitutional right to nip across when the road is clear. In fact I think it’s a discourtesy to drivers to press the stop button in places where there’s always a gap in traffic in a few minutes.

There’s an annoying pedestrian crossing near me that takes so long to turn to green that, outside the rush hour, by the time traffic lights turn to red, the waiting pedestrians have always been able to cross the road. This has the result that traffic has to stop at a by now completely deserted crossing.

A friend of mine was in Germany, which he knew very well, and was about to cross a road when a firm hand descended on his shoulder and prevented him from moving until it showed green. I wouldn’t like that approach.

EvieBB · 21/06/2026 09:45

Igneococcus · 20/06/2026 12:27

There is certainly a law against abuse of public servants but in reality Germans swear and call each other names and stick their middle fingers up at others just as much as the British do and nobody gets arrested or charged for it. I have certainly heard police officers being called Arschloch or Nazi (always popular) and they didn't arrest that person unless they were also violent (mostly during the Wackersdorf protests). Yes, there is scope for abuse of this but that's no different in the UK and its hate crime law, like the woman who got arrested for putting GC stickers up or that couple who had the police visit over some posts in a school WA group.

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Sorry, what's a GC sticker? 🤔

EvieBB · 21/06/2026 09:34

Anarchy99 · 20/06/2026 05:30

So everyone walks around with their rage bottled up because they can’t even stick the finger up at someone who is being a twat? Fuck that!

Outside of discrimination etc why are people’s words being policed like that? I don’t want to live in a world that has shit like this going on.

Absolutely this!