AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

Yes, that's true - but the main issue is the teenager choosing to dress in a way that she knows is socially unacceptable, and which forces people to have to see her private areas whether they want to or not.

If that same teenager was to stand there in the full classroom picking bogeys out of her nose and wiping them on the carpet, I highly doubt that it would give anybody any remotely sexual responses - but that still wouldn't mean that she shouldn't be expected to behave in a socially-appropriate way that respects others and doesn't force them to witness something unpleasant.

I know it's a very long thread now and I don't expect pps to have the time to trawl through, but I just wanted to make 2 points:

Things moved on from OP's question to the issue of teenage girls wearing the very revealing skirts which are designed to expose their bottoms. Bad enough with tights, but I have seen some girls wearing these with bare legs and very little in the way of underwear. It's these garments which a lot of pps find concerning...to put it mildly.

I'm not, and I don't think generally pps are, talking about just short skirts on teenage girls. That's different and pretty mainstream and as far as I'm concerned, a reasonable choice.

And a pp who objects very strongly to pps criticising the extreme look has admitted she hasn't even seen it herself. I think she believes we are condemning ordinary short skirts, which we're not.

“Not a good idea” you describe as some kind of vague male warning @Gloriia

but that seems sensible to me.

If these girls were doing this and the world was only populated by women - it wouldn’t need to include this sentence but rather the focus would be more on ….. it’s not in accordance with uniform and inappropriate.

It obviously alludes to the “men” issue because it is an issue.

Thankfully though (or perhaps you were disappointed?) your daughter were strict conformists to the uniform code so you never actually had to see your daughters wearing some of the length skirts many of us have. Your area of the UK escaping this entirely it would seem.

Mumsnetting really shouldn’t “exhaust” anyone, so sorry about that!

it’s a tiny minority but they do have a small number of persistent emailers to the school complaining about girls in short skirts so have to act.

I just got the interesting from this your teacher friend was saying not challenge because the school had to act. What else could they do? Or is your point- word it differently?

It's not just males either. Plenty of women (including me) have said it makes them uncomfortable too. I really dont want to be seeing underwear or backsides either

Uncomfortable males. It's only natural people feel comfortable when around barely dressed people (men or women) in a professional work environment. What would you expect a 17 year old to do if his female classmates are flashing their underwear? Just feel right as rain that's he's around inappropriately dressed peers? That if he looks at them, they'll accuse him of being a creep (which he isn't)

Think about an a level maths class.

I have no issues with those words being said. To me they are accurate. And I have no regrets.

It's like pulling teeth. Are you a teacher?

I gave you a pp's example of a message to parents? Please reread.

Policed in the same way as any rule break. Warnings etc? Just you know be proportionate and leave out any vague to protect the uncomfy males crap. Know the kids name, know their progress, know their ability not just the length of their skirt. Some teachers need reminding what their actual job is.

'I think she agreed with the rules being there, just you shouldn't say it in a bad way or something'

It took you long enough. Yes, without the tramps/whores/sweaty arse cheeks tone. And if it's said widely on here then clearly it represents opinion with parents and teachers generally, depressingly. It isn't ok.

Reasonable people can disagree about what clothing is appropriate for children, but blaming a child for others' misconduct shouldn't be considered fair. The language we use to describe these children should also be considered. We shouldn't try to shame of confuse. A short skirt may influence how some people react, just as many aspects of appearance can influence reactions,but if someone gives a school-age girl unwanted sexual attention, that behavior is the responsibility of the person giving the attention, not the girl wearing the skirt.

non issue in that particular school and some of the leadership team should tell the members of the public that email persistently that it’s not something the school generally has a problem with, that there is more to worry about and they should mind their own.

Your teacher friend thinks it’s a non issue in that particular school. Is she a teacher there?

I think she agreed with the rules being there, just you shouldn't say it in a bad way or something? Even though none of us are saying anything and we are just online on a forum

I agree and support dress codes to a degree. These can be enforced and policed calmly and professionally.

to what “degree” at school?

and how “enforced and policed”?

or do you post like a politician…. In vague but strong assertions

Are you serious or are you taking the piss?! I've explained my position repeatedly.

I'll do it again for you though if you're struggling.

I agree and support dress codes to a degree. These can be enforced and policed calmly and professionally. I never want to hear the misogynistic crap we've seen spouted tbroughout this thread such a tramps/whores/ arse cheeks/like pervs in parks flashing/like baboons waving genitals etc etc etc.

A pp managed to sum it up perfectly 'Absolutely right, As I said earlier, neutral language from the school would be something like “All skirts must be knee length, and underwear should not be showing - this applies to all pupils”.

Surely you understand now

In the meantime teachers please teach. Teach!

Guess I’ll never know your view on the actual OP @Gloriia

'Nobody has called young women whores. What's been said is that hiking a skirt up so high that it's exposing your underwear and/or bum makes the girl look like a whore'

Oh well that's ok then! <wtaf>

I agree. I still don't actually see why it's supposedly shaming anybody to concede that bottoms are parts of everybody's body can get sweaty and that people don't want direct contact with somebody else's.

Nor to point out that flashing is flashing, regardless of who chooses to do it.

Indeed - it's the elephant in the room, and I don't know why so many students and parents just don't seem to get it.

I wonder if some people are just trying to be difficult and push boundaries for the sake of it. In the highly unlikely event that the school changed their official uniform policy so that skirts had to be short enough that everybody in the vicinity could see the wearers' pants and bum cheeks, I bet some of the most furious complaints would come from the families of girls who already insist on wearing just that!

Suggest to the school they change to skorts as part of the uniform.problem solved.

@GreenSalon so your teacher friend thinks you should absolutely challenge the school on this newsletter (does she clarify why she is so insistent on that point?) but you have decided not to? Or you are going to challenge?

Agreed

but I am still unclear re what your position is @Gloriia on the OP and as it seems on the one hand… you agree with a uniform code and indeed your own daughters never failed but to strictly conform to their schools dress codes, but on the other hand you think that they should be able to wear what they want and teacher’s exclusive focus should be on teaching?

Tattoos are awful, they look ugly and so cheap no matter how much they cost.

well, still rather unpleasant given so many women do have tattoos

I used to do it and my skirt was pleated and it looks ridiculous and my teacher said ‘Please sort your skirt out, I can see what you’ve had for breakfast!’ In front of everyone! Clearly it bothered me as over 20 years later I remember it and her as she’s now my gym instructor!!

I think it’s wrong when I see young girls brazenly walking around with their bums on display because their skirts are rolled up. Saying it isn’t a good idea is fine wording IMO, they’re longer for a reason to cover your modesty. Boys of that age are clearly going to be interested in girls and it just adds something else for the school to think about. This isn’t about feminism!!