AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

Some recent posters are getting to the heart of it.

Yes, clothing and fashion are a form of expression. Unfortunately curent ‘fashion’ is centred around a look driven by patriarchal norms and the male gaze. Incredibly short skirts, hot pants etc are part of that. Whether or not actual men are ogling them (and I agree that it is men’s’ responsibility not to be perverts and not to ogle children, however they are dressed), school should be a place where girls are exempt from the pressure to dress in a way designed to present their bodies for the male gaze. A place where their value and their social capital is not based on how closely they fit a patriarchal norm (see also rules about fake lashes, tan etc), but on who they are. In this sense, uniform can be seen not as restriction but as freedom from a society which values women and girls primarily on their appearance.

Also: I’m a teacher. You absolutely do see bum cheeks. Sadly. The wording of the email in the OP was very likely based on the fact that is really is ‘not a good idea’ to wear a skirt which reveals your bum, the wings of your sanitary pad, etc. not because of men but because it’s embarrassing and not smart and not appropriate!

I was trying to put a comic spin on it, I admit! But it was eye-popping, I can tell you. I was just feet away from these buttocks....and they were most definitely on deliberate display. It reminded me of primate behaviour when a chimp or baboon is ready for mating.

While I agree with your last paragraph, it’s not that traumatising, if at all. Come on now. Exaggerations like that don’t help. Especially if you’re trying to educate the girls as to why it’s a bad idea.

To all the (lucky!) pps saying they don't know what we're referring to and that teenage girls have been shortening their school skirts since the year dot...er, tell me you've never seen what I've seen, without telling me...etc etc

I (and I think other traumatised pps) are talking about the sort of skirts which are almost a thong with a frill attached. They are designed to reveal the buttocks to about half-way up. Sitting in my car near a high school once I looked up from my book to see 2 pairs of naked cheeks passing my window. Once seen, never forgotten. I though 'WHAT?"

Bad enough with tights, but revolting without. It is just the pressure of porn culture on young women who are too naive to understand that. Why is it that it's always (throughout history) women who feel pressured to reveal their erogneous zones? Boys and men don't seem to feel this pressure. I find the whole business annoying precisely because it's a demonstration of sexual politics. Some people interpret it as a feminist choice but it just isn't - it's unequal and it's a pandering choice.

Girls and boys should wear tailored shorts or long trousers in my opinion.

Yes I think arse cheeks hanging out is scruffy.

The country outside London is truly a very strange place. This is a phenomenon unknown here.

Yeah. No. If you spend any time on here , or even in the real world you will realise that being a girl in uniform (regardless of skirt length) is enough to make men leer, whistle, make comments and worse. It starts as young as 11! Sometimes in primary school uniforms.

Don’t you dare put that responsibility on children(regardless of the length of their skirts).

If you are happy to have your arse showing, don't want to be taken seriously and like having lecherous looks then very rolled up skirts are a great idea, otherwise they are not.

It is very unfair on girls to pretend the world is a different place to the one it is. They need to be able to make informed decisions.

Well you clearly are not amongst state high school students as they walk to and from school.Some of us are, daily.

Absolutely not like this it hasn’t. I went to school in the 70s and 80s, girls were absolutely not showing their pants or pressurised to do so then.

I think it was a perfectly reasonable request. Yes, maybe could have been worded differently.

Not a great look for self respect and dignity.

I went to DC’s school last week. I was carrying something to the high school and in front of for me a girl was going up the stairs with the skirt really short. You could see the string of her tampon if you were on the lower stairs. I don’t think it’s the look she was going for.

Why are girls rolling them up? Not why we pretend it to be what message are they wanting by doing it

Are people genuinely that naive?

We were rolling skirts up in the 60s and 70s

We did not roll them up as short as girls do nowadays. And we didn't have the skin tight lycra that rides up over your bum that you have to be constantly tugging down.

And we often wore underslips, too.

I live near a large secondary school. Trousers are an option for girls, but I have never seen more than two or three wearing them, ever. The girls seem to prefer skirts.

I would have hated to wear trousers myself, even though I do at the weekends.

I don't live in the UK and I have never seen any girl wearing a skirt as short as talked about on MN, or even those I've seen on TV programmes. We rolled our skirts up when I was at high school in the 70s, but only to mid thigh. Kilts are worn here a lot in winter, and some of them are ankle length. I imagine any girl here wearing such a short skirt would be immediately told not to, it just doesn't seem to be tolerated. I really don't understand why it seems to be so common in the UK.

I agree with all of this; but what does it have to do with refusing to follow clear rules about acceptable school uniform, and instead insisting on displaying your bum cheeks, knickers or worse to everybody?

This is not about the response of men or boys; it's about self-respect, respecting others by not showing your private areas and not blatantly ignoring rules just because you think you're too special or important for them to apply to you.

I agree that boys should be allowed to wear shorts. Knee-length 'bottoms' of whatever variety are smart and practical. Obviously, nobody is going to object to bare legs below the knee for either boys or girls; it's bum cheeks and pants on show that the whole issue is clearly about.

Unfortunately, at my DS's school, boys are not allowed shorts - and so none of them wear them; it's only (a large proportion of) the girls who seem not to be able to comply with the clearly-stated uniform requirements - even though the rules already allow them considerably more choice, freedom and comfort in the summer than the boys have.

Just because something has been going on for decades doesn't mean it's right

Morphed into..it’s been going on since the 1960s ,..
it’s the norm

It is not a leveller. You can always tell which kids have rich parents and which haven’t by their uniform. To tell yourself otherwise is delusional

Lots of girls at my school did this in the 90s. Nothing new. We used to have to get our skirts measured to see they were the correct length below the knee. Extremely unhealthy misogynistic stuff, obviously.

Always amazed by how many people live in areas where girls’ skirts are so short they are routinely exposing their naked backsides. At nearly 50, I’ve never seen another females ‘bum cheeks’. Plenty of tradesmen bum cheeks, but zero women.

Only read the first page. Laughing. We were rolling skirts up in the 60s and 70s . I am always amused when I drive through town and see the school kids looking just as they did when I was at school…except we were in class. Why, at any time of day. 10 am. 11 am or any hour , are the streets full of school kids? Don’t they have lessons any more? They dress in uniform to parade the streets till it’s time to go home?

some decent points, but:

" what feminists don't seem to get: Clothing is power, lack of clothing is subservience."

Hijab? Burka? Head-to-toe sackcloth outfit? ✊🏾👍🏾🤯

OMG the world is going mad. I recently sat at a brass band concert in a secondary school with a 4th year girl student showing her pants. Most people noticed and it was both embarrassing and distracting.
why do people not realise this. I don’t want my daughter wearing a skirt so short it’s showing her pants. A bit of self rest would be the most important thing here. Let’s stop blaming school for everything.