AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

Let's take it to the extreme and a girl was wearing a bikini to school.....then again according to @Gloriia the teachers shouldn't say anything

Well what alternative explanation can you think of, why so many adolescent girls defiantly choose to act like this?

It's not done for comfort or practicality; and it's not for style, as it just looks ridiculous; and it most certainly isn't done as a blow for feminism. So why?

It would seem you are the type of person to be very direct and forthright in your stringent opinions on mumsnet threads @Gloriia

but when it comes to Rl and your children’s education… you’re happy for all your children to attend both primary and secondary school with only the “odd” competent teacher, and the rest wholly incompetent not knowing your child or their progress apparently.

very strange priority there @Gloriia

I'd say the same about the lads who do the gangsta thing, waddling along with their trouser waistbands underneath the bottom of their pants. Maybe from the front, they think it makes a bold, sexually-aggressive statement; but if they saw themselves as people walking behind see them, I wonder if they might think twice.

We once saw one such young lad walking like this and his trousers fell all the way down to his ankles. I mean, it's just the law of gravity, isn't it?! Oddly enough, he looked really embarrassed when that happened - even though he'd already deliberately done the major part of it himself!

Again, what do you not understand about inappropriate dressing? All our kids dressed appropriately, good. Those that don't, will be told off and punished. Good on the school for tackling it, do you not think micro skirts and incredibly inappropriate for school?

Comparing young girls to monkeys is 'very well put'?

Very well put. To be honest, it even looks ridiculous when actual gorillas, baboons and the others do it (I realise that's a me issue and it's their natural instinct) - and if there were such a thing as feminism and equality in the animal kingdom, that most definitely wouldn't be a good way of upholding it.

Ours didn't show their pants and wore the correct coloured socks and shoes too. We adhered to all the rules I'm just not bothered when others don't and I don't think teachers should waste so much time on policing things like skirt length or trouser style. A dcs friend sent home as they had skinny trousers not 'classic'. It is just batshit.

They can do both. People can do multiple things. If a student is dressing scruffily, a teacher can tell them to tuck their shirt in. And don't dress inappropriately for school.

I have a very bright DC as well. Grammar school educated top top unis for UG and masters. They all dressed appropriately for school and didn't show off pants on purpose (given some things are private and I raised them correctly)

I'm not complaining now, and I didn't then rather sighed and eye rolled to myself <not to the dc obviously, I encouraged respect much as it was challenging at times>.

Ours did really well but the freqent whiny emails and memos about clothes and lunchboxes were so very tedious. Face to face meetings often had flustered teachers unable to tell you the basics but could probably recite chapter and verse about lunch content or skirt length rule breaking.

Priorities seem a bit fucked in some schools, that is all.

Yes you'd get the odd one who really stood out as competent and on the ball and could discuss course content etc

the odd one at all your kids schools was competent

the rest you were very disappointed in, year after year, both primary and secondary. And yet… you kept them there. Seems bizarre to be so up in arms about this threads and yet so… chilled about fact that you aren’t happy for the duration of your kids education

No as I said the odd one stood out and were competent it was just the exception rather that the norm sadly.

Stop policing lunch boxes and clothes and teach would be my advice.

Our were all very bright so did very well regardless of the obsession with tights, socks, shoe style etc.

I suggested it because I used to work in a supermarket, where I'd see a LOT of people bending over self service tills and also walking away to leave the shop. Quite of a lot of much more mature women used to flash all sorts of things when bending and some outfits could be quite startling in back view that looked perfectly all right from the front. Seeing yourself properly (ie, without having to perform some kind of contortions) from the back can be educational...

I know that students who adopt the most extreme form of this fashion are in the minority. But I have seen it with my own eyes - so I'm not one of the pps saying 'Oh, teenage girls have always rolled up their skirts!'

I apologise to those, like Gloriia, who are offended by, er, direct language, but I can't help looking at it in an anthropological...or even zoological context.

Yes, pubescent or nubile young female animals may feel the urge to display their sexual organs - or at least, their erogenous zones, in this case their buttocks. It's nature! Chimps, baboons, all kinds of primates do it.

But we aren't gorillas living in the Rwandan rainforest - we live in a complex developed society with ideas about feminism and sexual politics which sometimes fly in the face to natural urges. So sorry, girls - you need to take that on board. And that's where parenting comes in - sensible parents will help them understand the context of 21st century European society, not just let them make themselves look ridiculous...at best.

@Gloriia what a shame you were so disappointed with all your kids schools but despite being so disappointed year after year after year you never moved them? Or just moved them to another unsatisfactory school.

or even considered home schooling. I am sure that would have been a relief to all

Yes, I agree. I think there are some girls who dress in the morning and cursorily glance at themselves (whilst standing up) straight on in the mirror - and are unable to understand that a lot will change, move and ride up throughout the day when they walk around, sit down and walk up stairs.

I bet a lot more of them check their hair a lot throughout the day than think to check whether they are flashing people.

If what you say is true, I think you need to direct your complaints to Ofsted. Ofsted has imposed a lot of petty rules on schools in recent years. Sadly teachers have to do things like check lunchboxes. At one time it was so ridiculous that a school near us lost its designated status as a 'Healthy School', or whatever was the current obsession, because an Ofsted inspector found a Mars bar in one child's lunch box.

That's what teachers are having to deal with - ridiculous pressure from above and parents who know very little about how schools have to operate and who obstruct teachers at every turn are just adding to the problems by taking up what precious time is left to actually teach the curriculum.

Every time a silly student decides 'I'm a rebel, me!' and flouts uniform or other rules it takes up teachers' time from what they really want to do.

Go ahead and challenge every little memo, email and rule enforcement, but your children will be the ones who suffer. And presumably, when you entered your children for their schools, you read and agreed to abide by the rules??

I'm absolutely baffled at the idea that, as long as a teenager is doing well in her studies at school, then safeguarding her from the potential dangers of showing her private parts in public and also teaching her to respect others who don't want to see it are somehow completely irrelevant!

You don’t sound very impressed at all with your children’s schools @Gloriia if you’re concerned about their focus on the curriculum.

Maybe that should be your focus?

I wonder if surround-mirrors might help? The kind where you can see yourself from all angles? Because in some cases (not all, but in the 'sanitary-towel-showing/pubic hair poking out' scenarios) I wonder if it's more a case of people not having checked their back view. Short skirts look great from the front, lots of leg on display, but, like many outfits, there can be a wake-up call when it's possible to see yourself walking away...

There are, of course, many girls who LIKE having their bums entirely visible, but being able to see one's back view might be a chastening experience for some.

But it doesn't have to be one or the other. And much as I hate pointless and unfair rules in school, it very often follows that children who refuse to follow simple common-sense, respectful rules about peripheral things will also be seriously 'challenging' when it comes to more central things.

Once they understand that rules are optional, and that nothing will happen to them immediately if they decide that they just aren't really a fan of obeying them, why should they bother listening to adults about anything? And the ones who usually end up suffering the most as a result are those children themselves, who (whether they realise or not with their not-yet-mature brains) are desperately in need of adult guidance.

Lots of rules are not fun, but they're there for everybody's benefit. If you ask children (or adults) if they enjoy doing exams, you'd struggle to find any who said Yes. But most people understand that they are a necessary investment to unlock much greater opportunities and privileges in your adult life.

You can pay attention to the curriculum, teach well and also call out inappropriate behaviour and improper dress

I do yes.

Why they can’t just say “it’s not the uniform policy you signed up to when joining this school” is beyond me.

Skirts up to your arse doesn’t look smart imo, and schools seem to want smart (although I’d have them in something more comfortable if in charge), but the reason not to do it is that it’s not policy. End of.

Oh years and years of experience with teachers throughout primary and secondary. Yes you'd get the odd one who really stood out as competent and on the ball and could discuss course content etc but sadly too many were checking lunch boxes/colour of socks/length of skirt whilst unable to discuss a child's progress and next steps at parents evenings.