Zoos are cruel....

I absolutely think human life is more important than non-human life. We have consciousness and deep, complex thoughts and emotions. We don’t know what inner life animals have but it’s almost certainly nowhere near as rich as a human being.

I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial view. Cannibalism is forbidden but meat eating is fine for example.

I would’ve preferred not to have been born
Same.

Yes they are. Has anyone seen this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/devastating-fire-tears-through-kids-34101047 updates say one baby turtle did survive, but that the zoo wasn't even licensed.

I live near London Zoo ZSL. I go jogging regularly in regents park, I can circle the zoo in less than ten minutes at a leisurely pace. Yet they have lions and tigers there, there is no way they live in an enriched environment, they are caged in tiny enclosures. They also hold Zoo Nights complete with 'champagne experience' and food trucks (ironically serving meat) and bars. Just what animals need.

True, but nature has a way at reducing overpopulation!!!

I’m sorry that’s just not true. Research by animal welfare groups has shown that a significant majority of species kept in UK zoos are not endangered or threatened in the wild. Breeding non-endangered animals often occurs to ensure visitors have continuous access to cute babies. In fact to keep zoo populations manageable many healthy young are culled or they use artificial contraception. You can find out more about zoos by googling PETA UK or Freedom for Animals

I do have some antinatalist views!!! I would’ve preferred not to have been born. I don’t think we should persevere life, if it means keeping animals (and humans) in captivity. Animals have greater success at breeding in the wild and have higher offspring survival rates.

I feel very conflicted about zoo’s for the reasons people have discussed, for the most part I avoid them as it feels
cruel and don’t get me started on the penguins at London Aquarium!

I’m sure some do excellent work but when travelling abroad I can’t help but suspect a lot of these animal rescue places are just money making schemes masquerading as conservation projects.

No animal would do this though!

@Elbreth I think many animals that become extinct do so due to the actions of human beings. And I think conservation efforts are human beings thinking they can put things right. Conservation is at least in part about us and making ourselves feel better, it not about the animals or the habitat in which they live. Not really. I am sure that people can give examples where it has been successful and I take the point that nature is in balance and the reintroduction of species can have a positive effect on many other species.
But I wonder if we have to right to breed animals in order to achieve this. What kind of life are they and their offspring going to have considering the state of the natural world right now? Never mind what many scientists predict will happen in years to come. And what about the lives of those from which these reintroduced animals were bred? A life in captivity as a breeding machine, anyone?
I'm not actually against conservation if it's done well. I just don't trust humans to do it well. Not in the majority of cases at least.

As for the decrease in the number of humans on the planet, nobody is talking about murdering people or that the population needs to shrink massively in the short term. It's a long term aim. And as for being cowardly, it's people's refusal to face up to the facts of the situation which is cowardly and we are all guilty of that. I had my heating on briefly last night ffs!

Talk about so-called superior human beings! Resorting to the old "which is an interesting viewpoint…." and having no argument other than, yes it is! Blinking 'eck.

I agree

Especially city zoos, one day we shall look back and think wtf were we thinking

Yes you’re right, it would be awful and barbaric. Perhaps you have some antinatalist views? “It is better to never exist than exist in a world of suffering”? I do share that view to some extent, but on the other hand, it is difficult to know for sure whether someone else is suffering, particularly an animal, due to communication challenges.

If an animal “seems” happy enough in captivity, and isn’t showing signs of distress such as pacing or making distressed noises (which most of have indeed seen in zoos), is it really fair to say that protecting their species is causing them undue distress and we should stop doing it?

Completely agree about the pet industry. So many people who “love animals” happily purchase man-made breeds, use puppy farms etc. No controls about who gets a pet, the number of pets etc. Doges destroyed because of behavourial problems. Breeding in deformities for appearances sake etc. This doesnt happen in zoos.

It would be awful and barbaric. I don’t understand why we need to preserve life at ANY cost!!

People want to see animals and it is better for them to see them in zoos than go rampaging round destroying the natural environment looking for them and generating huge amounts of CO2 in the process.

Zoos also help with research and breeding, particularly of endangered species.

I haven’t read it, but I have heard it can be interpreted as an allegory for the dairy industry. I probably should read it.

To be honest I think if humans were going extinct there probably would be some sort of horrific dystopian intervention. It wouldn’t be pretty. But I think strong measures would be taken. Like we do with endangered species.

Would you like people watching you to see if you will mate? Let the Pandas go into the wild in China and leave them be!!!!

You're really comparing The Handmaid's Tale to two pandas being introduced to see if they'll mate.

I hope you don't drink milk, over 70% of dairy cows are bred using AI - and no I don't mean artificial intelligence.

Well they ARE helpful in terms of conservation. You just don’t think conservation is particularly important. Which is an interesting viewpoint….

@Cosimarocks
No it's not the ribbons.

Life in the wild isn't always that super either, especially if you're a prey animal. Or if you're a predator, get old and starve to death because you can't hunt any more. I really think people idealise life in the wild.

Zoos can also be great places for educating people who then want to see those animals protected in the wild. That said no animals should be kept in small spaces. No animal should be pacing their enclosure or showing signs of stress.

Really we do need to get some control over the human population numbers, humans are the cause of pretty much all the issues the world faces from pollution to deforestation to climate change - but sadly it's never going to happen.

Breeding programs shouldn’t be the answer. If humans looked like they were going extinct, would it be alright to set up breeding programs in captivity against peoples will? Have you read The Handmaid’s Tale?

For the most part it's only because of human intervention in the first place that these animals are going extinct

I mean, I’m not defending horse sports, I’m rather agnostic on the issue. Though have no problem with horse riding, which I suspect you do. I just think it’s a rather weird take to highlight dressage in particular. Is it the ribbons you’re so against? I mean clearly, horses dying in races or horses being made to dress up to look a bit daft, it’s definitely the ribbons and hair braids we should be going after.

Yeah I know. It breaks my heart too. But unfortunately “destroy all the humans” or “release all the captive animals” are not options. Breeding programmes are necessary for the future. Animal welfare standards in zoos are necessary for today. And I absolutely agree they should be much stricter. And we absolutely need to protest against places like Seaworld.