Zoos are cruel....

Humans are the problem!! I think one answer could be Voluntary Human Extinction. If everyone stopped having children, the human race would naturally die out. Or humans could change their behaviour, but that’s NEVER going to happen.

I know zoos are not ideal but i have also seen the side of poaching with my own eyes and that is another level of cruel. Babies being ripped from their mothers who are hacked to death leaving the babies to starve or senselessly killed.

I agree some zoos should be shut where the animals don't have appropriately sized cages or stimulation but without zoos a lot more animals would suffer far more and would be extinct. There should be stricter rules for zoos to adhere to.

I don’t think you did ask me earlier, but to answer you, NO!!!

The only life I will ever take is mine.

Same as flamingo land in the 90s I think it was 2 polar bears and a brown bear in a concrete enclosure with a bit of water down the slope. I went once and still see the brown bear rocking and the polar bears pacing. Awful. And not the worst animal cruelty.

I come here to say about the polar bear.
I am Bristol born and bred, and went to the zoo a lot as a kid. I remember the polar bear just pacing up and down all the time. It was awful to see.

@6ate9 as I asked you earlier are you leading the exodus of humans you keep going on about?

I don't think they're a good enough reason to keep just because some have breeding programmes. If some species go extinct at least they won't be faced with suffering at the hands of Man anymore. They're probably better off out of it tbh, earth is becoming an unbearable place to live because of wanton cruelty, pollution, changing climate, drought etc. I hate to see animals suffering.

I've disliked Zoos since I saw the very distressed elephant at London zoo, during a school trip in the 70s.
I have taken my children a few times, but was glad when they both decided they didn't like the idea of animals in captivity, so didnt want to go any more.
I'm a bit dismayed to see that Newquay has been taken over by a Dutch leisure company and intends to introduce giraffes only a site only 13 acres in total. Is that in the giraffes best interests?

This is very true but mostly because humans would have wiped them out… It’s weird. We cage them to keep them safe from other people.

That’s why it’s in inverted commas!! No life is “important!!!”

It is true!!! Humans are not needed for life to continue on earth. The planet will thrive without us. Humans are a plague on the earth!!!

Weird definition of important.

Well, no.

In a complex ecosystem such as ours, so much relies on everything else. The food chain is way, way more complex than "humans eat animals so get rid of the humans and everything else is ok". That's simply not true, at all.

Agreed. Zoos are cruel. I do not visit them.

I think you will find that the environmental impact of a plant-based diet is way lower than for meat.

The fact that humans are more intelligent than other animals doesn't make our lives more important. Ultimately we all end up dead, and the universe will forget we ever existed when humans end up extinct. There's no more or less worth or point to our lives than any other creature - which is none, for everything and everyone.

Pray do tell us the environmental impact if the percentage of vegans were to increase? Far as I can tell land that is used to grow crops to feed cows/pigs (like soya, nearly 80% of which goes to feed animals) could be rewilded and the land space animal agriculture would also shrink and recover over time. And it would free up space to grow grain/vegetables crops for human consumption.

It shows animal life is more “important” than human life, as humans literally can’t survive without animals.

Okay? That has zero bearing on my view. Not sure why it’s relevant honestly

Rude, patronising, disingenuous...! Go you!
It's not about whether I have "significant issues in my life", it's whether I am a net contributor or someone that the world would have been better off without.
I think the world would have better off without all people to be honest.
And you only have to spend time on MN to come to the conclusion that many people would have been better off not coming into this world.

Crossed with your latest post. If you genuinely feel you shouldn’t have been born then I’m really sorry. You’re clearly coming at this debate with some pretty significant issues in your life

I don't have a problem with eating animals. But I do meat. It's the way it is produced. But to eat other appropriate animals in say, the way apes do, I think is fine.
Producing vegan food the way we do and in the quantity needed is also problematic.
Again, we are back to the number of people on this planet and they way in which we live.

Humans CAN’T survive without animals, but animals CAN survive without humans!!!!

That's because you want to feel better about yourself and can't face the truth. A take it as a compliment that you think I am a moron.

Do you also dislike other species of omnivores and carnivores?
Do you realise the environmental impact an entire population of vegans would cause? Its not something which would be beneficial if it went past the current low percentage of virtue signallers following the diet.

I was being tactful. I think anyone who doesn’t support conservation is a moron. Better?