Zoos are cruel....

It’s humans who have made most animals extinct. Wild animals would thrive in the wild without human intervention, but domesticated pets wouldn’t.

I think even someone in year 6 would be capable of understanding that this is not the case at all.

oh we all know you two agree. But you both have some weird ideas about how great it is that species go extinct and suffer greatly in the wild. While thinking humans (also animals) should be removed from earth.

@redboxer321 I agree with you!!!
For me, it comes down to the fact that humans are a plague on the earth and animals would thrive without us. Animals don’t need us to survive, unlike humans who can’t survive without animals. We cause nearly all the problems on this planet, and then when it’s too late we feel guilty and try to make amends, by making animals suffer all for the greater good!!!

@BeSunnyLemonSheep If there is nothing wrong with zoos, you'd be happy to live in one and presumably think that other animals are equally happy to live in one, why the need for cages or enclosures? Surely nobody would want to escape this paradise. Or is it that you think the lions, for example, may attack other animals and people? Well indeed they might. That's what lions do. Hunt, kill, eat. That is their natural state. But we take that away from them and, at best, offer up 'enrichment activities' which can't hope to match the richness of their life in the wild. Tough as it may be. Would you be happy to have the things you do taken away from you? Work maybe, but your hobbies, interests, offspring? Have your life controlled by someone else?
Or did you make that comment because you can't admit that you know full well that you wouldn't be happy living in a zoo and you are also aware that there is plenty wrong with them but can't admit that either?

Yeah, I don’t see why not 🤷‍♀️

I am like everyone else I'm afraid. I've got no answers.

Without humans, wildlife would thrive and biodiversity would grow. It’s quite a dilemma!!!

I think there is a whole swathe of scientists and conservationists who say that in all probability we have left it too late, yes, but still want to try.

The question is how do you intend to fix the world’s over-population issue within the next thirty years? Forcible contraception? One child policies? Payments to the child-free? Even if you believe those methods to be ethical, how do you enforce and police them globally?

Back to zoos, I am proud to be a member of a brigade that includes Chris Packham and Will Travers. And yes, they are also conservationists but that's the kind of conservation, I could support. One that does not cause further animal suffering, mess things up further or is really an excuse for zoos to breed more animals. I'm less optimistic perhaps than they are that it might work but, then again, I suppose that might be because I spend more time on MN with the pro-zoo brigade than they do.

@Kirawaswaiting107 Or is it just facing up to the truth rather than fiddling around the edges? I hope not. I fear it may be. I am quite sure that there is good conservation work going on. I just wonder if we have left it too late and whether it will really make a difference.

Yes of course. But again, that’s an “idealistic” scenario.

@Kirawaswaiting107 Which is why I said the human population needs to come down to sensible numbers.

Of course I agree that would be the ideal scenario in an ideal world!

Unfortunately in some countries which are still riven by war and hunger, the international agreements necessary to make this work are few and far between but certain initiatives are making headway eg one of the most prominent is the Kavango Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation Area (KAZA TFCA), spanning Angola, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

But as we know, poaching of elephants is still an issue in some of these countries. There are no quick fixes or easy solutions.

Research in the area of behavioural science and environments are making huge advances. Humanity is catching up and making improvements but not all countries are at the same level of education and understanding and most countries, UK included, present a pretty mixed picture.

What surprised me most about visiting China recently was how green it was and how many conservation projects are ongoing in a country which also produces astronomical levels of pollution.

There is an argument to shift from zoos to animal rehabilitation centres, the main difference being that the latter doesn't do breeding and largely focuses on injured native wildlife and/or wildlife that has been been removed from the area (like the previously mentioned chimps). There have been pushes for this in some places for many years along with developing systems to better live alongside wildlife.

The options all have benefits and risks for the animals, including the no captivity option. Which option has the least suffering and/or removes the most human-caused suffering, there have been many opinions and data going around that for decades as our knowledge and capabilities have changed.

Who would be keeping us in captivity? Super-intelligent aliens? Keeping us warm and fed, hoping we pair off naturally? Doesn’t sound too bad to me!

I guess nature forget to tell my body - haven't had meat for more than 35 years! and more recently no animal products at all. Why am I still strong and healthy?

Would you like to live in one?

People like to make things complicated to justify their actions. Answer me this, would it be okay to keep humans in captivity so they could breed, if the human race was going to become extinct?

Absolutely nothing wrong with zoos.

Apparently that’s fine. According to the anti-zoo brigade (well two posters with poorly thought out views akin to a year 6 debate as a pp said).

Where do elephants live in a city?

Why does it matter if animals become extinct? Keeping animals in captivity is NEVER ok!!!

We don’t want to face up to the fact that animals do suffer for humans. Donkey rides for example, on the beach sound lovely to some people, but the donkeys get stressed. They are out working long hours in the heat, carrying heavy loads and being surrounded by loud noise which causes them physical and emotional distress.

Huge conservation programs are delieved by zoos. Without them many would now be extinct or suffering