To think if Keir Starmer is ousted there should be a general election

That’s not correct. In those circumstances, the King would appoint a new prime minister, on the advice of the cabinet.

which is drawn from parliament.

In the UK (and it should not need to be emboldened) parliament is supreme

Endof.

😆 🤣

That’s not correct. In those circumstances, the King would appoint a new prime minister, on the advice of the cabinet. That would probably be the deputy leader of the governing party (if a member of the cabinet) or the deputy prime minister (if there is one - it’s not mandatory and there isn’t always - and assuming they differ from the deputy leader), although there is no hard and fast rule. The governing party would then have a leadership election and when a new leader is selected, he or she would be appointed (assuming they differed from the interim prime minister).

Seven prime ministers have died in office, including an assassination in 1812, but it hasn’t happened since 1865.

Closest we’ve come more recently was Andrew Bonar Law who resigned in 1923 due to terminal throat cancer and died shortly after leaving office.

😂😂😂 This isn’t 1970s Nicaragua, dear 😂😂😂 Do you think Burnham is leader of the Rebel Alliance and he’s off for a battle to the death with his real dad on the Death Star? 😂😂😂

@ Yes, obviously. But what if we have a new rule as suggested on this thread that a ‘change’ means we have a GE? A PM dies at a time of crisis, a GE would be a disaster. We can’t have a rule whereby anytime something happens that constitutes a change a GE is called.
Parliament needs the flexibility to elect a leader when necessary without recall to a GE. A new PM does not - and should not - necessitate a GE. Parliament as @SerendipityJane says should be able to make the decision without the need for a GE.

What if a PM dies in office?

Parliament chose a new one. Job done.

@SerendipityJane Mississippi I’m looking at you!

No I really don’t. What if a PM dies in office? Is that a good time for a GE? What if there is a world crisis like a pandemic? Does that need a GE? The Brexit referendum was a massive change, does that require a GE?
My point is you have to be really clear and specific if you want this rule and then there might be times when it was really inappropriate but we’d be forced to have a GE. The inherent vagueness of the system is actually very good.
Don’t ask for something if you haven’t thought through all the options, it’s really complicated and really hard. Not just I don’t like KS I want this sorted now. You can’t change a rule based on this instance, well you can, but it may have long term unforeseen implications.

Liz Truss was able to turn the entire economic policy of the UK inside out without going anywhere near parliament. It was only her own side, buckling under the pressure of their mates who were losing money (obviously not as much as the public is still losing) that removed her. Not a vote in parliament and not the electorate.

If we are talking mandates and the like.

I think you know what I mean here. 😏

For the time being at least. There's no point him making a leadership challenge if he's going to just carry on doing what Starmer's doing. It is not unreasonable to suggest therefore that he will be looking to deviate from what was in the Labour Manifesto.

The US has also spent a lot of time hating dictators and kings and that’s not looking too good for them either at the moment.

Now you're just plain trolling.

You vote for your MP, not for the PM.

States rights !

As in the right to suck on the federal teat whilst simultaneously prating on about sovereignty and eschewing all those nasty liberal laws.

Sound familiar ?

The trouble with the US is there is always a state law somewhere that proves a point one way of the other my point was the US was closer to being a democracy (apart from women, slaves, indentured servants etc) than most of Europe. It was more advanced than most of the world.
The US has also spent a lot of time hating dictators and kings and that’s not looking too good for them either at the moment.

I've never felt overly held back by my cynicism.

there was suffrage for all men(white men that is) which was advanced for the time.

Not federally. We can't all come from Kentucky can we ?

The UK does seem to have managed to keep that evil genie in the bottle….so far.

I think the UK being completely honest about it's Imperial status and ambitions probably helped. The US has had to spend a quarter of a millennium pretending it hates empires whilst simultaneously ensuring it became one. (An attempt at a conjuring trick that fooled no one who wasn't American, by the way).

Even the race to choose a candidate to run for senate can be more expensive than the whole UK GE

@SerendipityJane I wouldn’t be as wholly cynical as that. C&B were designed to make sure one body could not override the other, also there was suffrage for all men(white men that is) which was advanced for the time.
I would agree that its money that has brought the US constitution low, particularly money in elections (for those of you who are interested look up Citizens United vs FEC), the inability to control money in politics is the main reason Trump has been allowed to go rogue - in my opinion.
The UK does seem to have managed to keep that evil genie in the bottle….so far.

That isn't true. The cheques and balances would keep an individual from going rogue.

They won't prevent an organisation being bought by the wealthy and corrupted into a tool of the elite. Mainly because it was designed to protect the wealthy and elite.

Now the French revolution (which careful students will notice the US did very little to assist in) ... that was a different matter. You can bet your bottom dollar a lot of wealthy elite newly minted US citizens looked to France and inwardly thanked God their revolt maintained the status quo.

The problem a lot of people have is assuming the US constitution was intended to secure freedom from tyranny. Which it most certainly was not.

What it was intended to do was ensure that the colonial elites could avoid paying taxes to the British Crown and ensure that the rights of people to own slaves were secure and safe from any oversight.

Admittedly one out of two isn't too shabby I guess.

If anyone wants to try and perpetuate the total cobblers about liberty or somesuch guff, then I have 3/5ths of a dollar for them.

I thought that too and then we can see that the checks and balances are irrelevant if some psychotic toddler chooses not to abide by them

I used to think the US constitution was so much better with its checks and balances and separation of powers. I was wrong. It’s the people elected not the system that matter. Despite, the howls of protest the UK system (systems) seems to be working a lot better than the US. Who’d have thought that?

I have to admit that I completely reject my previous view. Despite ignoring all the warnings at the time that it could lead to a zombie parliament. In hindsight the only surprising thing is how quickly it happened.

The UK system is far from perfect. But frustratingly it wouldn't take too much to fix it up for another century or so. PR for the commons, and a proper elected upper house and you'd be set. Much easier than fixing the dumpster fire of the US (which may not be possible).

It's mildly amusing how many US presidents looked at the British system and felt it was better.

Not really sure how you can have direct indirect voting ? I mean neither did the original tax rebels, so no harm no foul.

And in 2020 SCOTUS said that there is no need for any state to require electors to actually deliver the votes they said they would. Merely that if a state did have a law that required it, then that law has to be followed.

Of course not all states have laws that require the electors do as directed. And indeed there are 12 that do not.

Yes fixed elections have been a definite disadvantage in the US, elongating campaigns and now the election tail wags the dog of governance. Too many elections can be very bad for governing a democracy, instability, no long term planning. One of the reasons I find the calls for GE every time there is a change very frustrating.