Burnham has won. More turmoil?

I hope Burnham will bring a change of direction, if he becomes leader. I'd like to see Blue Labour policies, people like Maurice Glasman make a lot of sense.

I hope he can tackle illegal immigration and the strain it puts on communities, start getting the NEETs into work, ditch some of the crazier DEI stuff, create policies that are good for business. It ought to be possible for a Labour leader to do this.

Don't underestimate the work that will be done to actively prevent that. The Left and centrists will unite, while the right divides and splits votes. No dirty secret of their dodgy candidates or example of their poor performance will go unrevealed. I've never before known a party so hated by all those in opposition to it from left right and centre, and for many people the top priority is keeping them out of government.

Ok no problem.

I agree - I saw the Makerfield by-election as nothing more than 'vote for Burnham to get rid of Starmer'. Hopefully, Starmer will finally put the country first and resign on Monday morning. I believe he's far too weak and too much of a coward to stand against Burnham in a leadership contest.

😆 🤣

Not really. Why would I waste my energy on talking to closed minds.

Lovely. You'll be able to evidence your claim that the essential nature of fascism has changed then?

I also go by evidence. It works both ways.

The key demographic of Reform UK Party Ltd voters is uneducated males.

Maybe, just maybe, women voted for Burnham because Reform fielded a misogynistic, sexist, rather stupid excuse of a man? Has any research been done on the gender breakdown of votes? Maybe its politics with a small ‘p’. Women said no to a sexist man.

Sponsored by Russia as well

That is just Reform's line, they are sore losers.

They fielded a sexist misogynstic candidate and other councillors stating they would vote for Savile before Labour.

All defended by the party.

Third by-election that Farage was forecasted to win and he lost.

I don’t think that the vote shows that Burnham can beat Reform, much as I’d like to think so. A lot of people voted for him just because they wanted to get Starmer out and will probably revert to Reform in the GE.

That was what I had in mind. There seems to be a creeping normalisation of the claim that white people face systemic bias and prejudice too, which is concerning because it's finding its way into everyday language.

His Two Tier policing and White Lives Matter definitely point to that, both have their roots in far right and white supremacist circles.

Having said that, I'd be mildly interested to know what the "old fashioned fascist meaning" is and how it differs from the new. Has fascism really changed so much? Is it now credible and acceptable in some way that I've missed?

To be honest, it's plain to see that Reform is moving into white supremacy, by looking at Mr Farage's recent rhetoric. It's plain to see why as well; he's in danger of being outflanked on the right by his former colleague Mr Lowe.

I never use hyperbolic language and I never express a political opinion that isn't backed by evidence.

Accusations of white supremacy within the Reform Party and its voters? I was going to ignore your hyperbolic language but it's the same lazy driven trope I see so I will address it. People who have turned to Reform do not peddle white supremacy but common sense. I will use me as an example. I welcome those who want to pay their way and integrate.i don't welcome those who want to threaten women and girls because of their culture. The second part of your hyperbole, being fascism - would that be the same fascism that bullied people at Oxford when Tommy Robinson was due to talk? The same when other right commentators, such as Chirlie Kirk and Douglas Murray were due to talk. You've got the old fashioned fascist meaning still in your head. Pointless trying to debate with you, as per my initial response.

I'm absolutely certain that white supremacy would stop you in your tracks. Yes.

There are also the G&D and Wales results as a show of moving away from Labour with Starmer as PM.

Sorry, didn't get past white supremacy.

For what reasons though? The choice of candidate for Reform.What was Nigel thinking? The chance to oust the worst PM in history (not interested in 5 minutes Truss). Any business owners who voted for Burnham had better hope he does a better job at protecting their interests. Though why they would vote for a socialist I don't know.

It is opinion, nothing more. And using that stupid joke - which could equally apply to any Labour MP elected before 2010 - as evidence illustrates how fatuous it is.

One of the attacks on Starmer, echoed on MN, was the Russian rent boys propoganda

You personally might hope so. I think that the 70% of the electorate that don't support Farage's brand of hard right rhetoric and emerging white supremacy are likely to (a) turn out to vote against Reform and (b) vote tactically to keep out the threat of fascism. It happened in Caerphilly last year and Makerfield just now. Reform can win local elections but it's starting to look like Mr Farage is suffering from some kind of prematurity when he boasts of being the next PM.