Burnham has won. More turmoil?

This was an extremely safe Labour seat, and a possibility to get out a quite unpopular prime minister. It wasn’t about Reform.

Reform threw everything at the bi election and didn’t win, I doubt they’ll find over 300 winning candidates ready for the next general election.

We’ll see. I think Starmer is a major issue. As a leader he swings voters away from his party. If they can find someone who does the opposite then go with it.

Where does this insane level of vitriol come from? It's totally unmerited and I would love to know what's fuelling it.

They have produced quite a few female politicians who could be prime minister.

Angela Rayner, Shabana Mahmood, Yvette Cooper, Bridget Phillipson, Lisa Nandy just to name a few.

Many people are more interested in policies rather than playing politics and culture wars - which is what people are doing when they focus on the sex of the Labour Party leader rather than the policies.

Oh but he will. Keir Starmer can call himself Lord whatever he likes but the fact remains he is no Winston Churchill!

Why secretly? (if you don't mind explaining)

Gas and oil.

Delighted he’s won 🙌🎉

I'm secretly glad

“How did he do it?: The BBC’s elections guru John Curtice said there were “two crucial elements” to Burnham’s victory: winning over tactical voters who normally back other parties — he reckoned it’s the worst ever Lib Dem performance in a by-election — and pulling in traditional Labour supporters who wanted to see the back of Keir Starmer. Getting help from the full Labour activist machine can’t have hurt either. The question is whether he can pull the same trick in hundreds of seats at once if he’s the prime minister everyone hates.” Politico London Playbook.

Think we had a far, far bigger “don’t give a fuck” attitude from the Tories and Reform for quite some time.

What do you mean by ideology?

We need it like a hole in the head.

But it also needs to happen.

And it isn't Labour's fault. Not Keir Starmer's or Rachel Reeves.

It's the electorate, expecting change overnight and being dumb enough to believe there are easy, fast answers to longstanding, complicated issues. The media, for relentlessly covering Farage's campaign of hate and not giving equal weight to the achievements of the government.

We get the government we deserve. We deserve the turmoil because apparently we're a bunch of reactionary impatient arseholes.

The country needs stability in order to give businesses - internal and external - confidence to invest. But that won't happen under Starmer because no one - NO ONE - is talking Britain and Britain's leadership down more than Britain right now.

We're absolute twats.

Agree with this and personally I feel the same about the Green party too.

It's not a requirement to vote and I would rather abstain than vote for a party I consider too extreme.

He may have said that but doesn’t mean it’s true in the minds of the voters. Most of what Farage says is dismissed by the left, and yet when he says something that goes their way, all of a sudden what he says is gospel.

Yes, Reform winning would have been humiliating for Labour and shown Reform would probably win the next GE, as it’s such a safe Labour seat.

But in reality, we have another 3ish years of Labour whether we like it or not. Whatever the outcome of this election, we would still have a Labour government, but not necessarily the same PM.

People who wouldn’t have voted for Labour in a GE would have voted for Labour in this just to get rid of Starmer. People who want Starmer to stay would have voted against Labour to stop another change in leadership.

I don't ignore his bad ratings and don't love him myself but to me it's a truth that the media came for him from day 1 and the same thing will happen to Burnham or whoever replaces Starmer (assuming he loses a leadership challenge).

And people use social media to spread hate towards public figures. No one is immune because no politician can please everyone.

There are vast numbers of us who could never vote Reform or Restore. We may have wanted to do something tactical but some things are really off limits!

He's good friends with Ange and Milliband

Farage said this by-election was existential. @ClarkeandNewman’s analysis is correct.

I respectfully disagree. It was a vote on whether you want Starmer out or not.

Want Starmer out? Vote Labour

Think Starmer should stay as you don’t think we need yet another PM and it will (probably) just be more of the same? Vote for the biggest opposition (in this case, Reform).

Clearly more people wanted Starmer out than in. Possibly many people who would vote Reform (or for other parties) in a GE voted Labour in this just to rid of Starmer.

What is there to get away with? 50% of the UK population is female. Why hasn't the Labour Party managed to produce a brilliant female politician who could lead their party and win an election for them? The Tories have had four women as leaders!

And what's wrong with pointing out that the Labour Party has also not yet managed to elect a leader who wouldn't tick the White British box on an ethnic monitoring form? Again, all the others have.

It's all of a piece for me with their supposed commitment to women's rights, which is so superficial that they've steadfastly ignored the problems with identity politics and gender ideology in particular. Tickbox exercise at best.

Even the Telegraph is admitting that Burnham did well. "An astonishing achievement." Poor Badenoch is reduced to "small beer".

Ok but ignoring Starmer’s very bad ratings won’t help Labour.

BBC has reform 35 and restore 7 percent - had lumped them together. The point stands - Burnham appears to get it…