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Burnham has won. More turmoil?

816 replies

KatiePricesKnickers · 19/06/2026 05:51

Now Burnham has won, it will trigger a leadership contest, and if he wins, a new chancellor of the exchequer.

Surely this cannot be good for the country, or its finances?

YABU - Burnham is a true leader who will improve the UK for everyone and be a competent and respected leader.

YANBU - FFS, here we go again.

OP posts:
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MeetMeOnTheCorner · 19/06/2026 15:17

No government takes legal advice from itself. The Attorney General is the government’s legal adviser. Starmer might grasp the arguments quickly though.

RedTagAlan · 19/06/2026 15:15

ClarkeandNewman · 19/06/2026 15:01

It would be a conflict of interests for the PM to provide the government with legal advice.

There are some things where a trained lawyer should not need to take legal advice to make a decision. I personally would have put the decision re UNCLOS and the Russian tankers in that column. That is why I was surprised he took legal advice. Yes it is potentially a grey area. but there is lots of precedent. It's the same international law re drug boats at sea. It should be bread and butter to him.

ClarkeandNewman · 19/06/2026 15:01

RedTagAlan · 19/06/2026 14:34

Yes, I am aware that law is complex.

You miss my point. For Starmer I think it is the next step up that matters. Not being good at the current step. And most of us know people from work who are like that.

I am not a lawyer as you can likely tell. I am closer to being a toolmaker. And when I heard Starmer on telly talking about taking legal advice about UK forces boarding Russian tankers, my reaction was "oh, it's only a few articles of UNCLOS that covers that, why does he not quote them? Or at least make his legal argument. But no, he said he had taken advice. And yes, it's a potentially gray area even under UNCLOS, but for someone with his legal training it would have taken him no time at all to communicate his reasoning.

It would be a conflict of interests for the PM to provide the government with legal advice.

Twiglets1 · 19/06/2026 14:58

soddingspiderseason · 19/06/2026 14:46

With respect, if Trump doesn’t rate Starmer, that’s hardly worth criticising Starmer for. Trump can’t stand anyone who isnt a bootlicker, and Starmer is clearly well respected by other, less addled, world leaders. He’s a decent has done well on the world stage, kept us out of the Iran nonsense, and been a stalwart from Ukraine. That’s why Trump doesn’t like him.

Exactly. Trump has been rude to lots of other world leaders too - it's practically a badge of honour to be insulted by him at this stage.

Trump was just angry that Starmer was reticent about getting too involved in the Iran war. Starmer seems to have good relationships with most others on the world stage.

soddingspiderseason · 19/06/2026 14:46

Loopylalalou · 19/06/2026 14:32

I've not seen mentioned that Starmer appears to be unliked by some other world leaders - not least Trump. Whilst DT isn’t the best, he holds the mass of power. Our influence is waning as he doesn’t rate Starmer.

With respect, if Trump doesn’t rate Starmer, that’s hardly worth criticising Starmer for. Trump can’t stand anyone who isnt a bootlicker, and Starmer is clearly well respected by other, less addled, world leaders. He’s a decent has done well on the world stage, kept us out of the Iran nonsense, and been a stalwart from Ukraine. That’s why Trump doesn’t like him.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 19/06/2026 14:45

@furimosa Change of leader but what does “change” really mean? He’s not said what any manifesto would look like and we haven’t voted for what he thinks either! It’s disrespecting voters. It’s selfish - but many politicians are.

Lentilcakes · 19/06/2026 14:37

HighHeelsRedLips · 19/06/2026 07:27

Try watching the video. Starmer is not a leader, he’s a silly sausage. Time for him to go. He will go down in history as being one of the worst PMs ever!

Liz Truss has entered the chat.

RedTagAlan · 19/06/2026 14:34

ClarkeandNewman · 19/06/2026 14:10

You do know that being DPP doesn't mean being chosen because you're literally the best lawyer in the country? That being the head of the CPS doesn't make you an expert in all areas of law? That governments must seek legal counsel - advice - all the time?

Starmer has his faults but there's an awful lot of unsubstantiated silliness on this thread.

Yes, I am aware that law is complex.

You miss my point. For Starmer I think it is the next step up that matters. Not being good at the current step. And most of us know people from work who are like that.

I am not a lawyer as you can likely tell. I am closer to being a toolmaker. And when I heard Starmer on telly talking about taking legal advice about UK forces boarding Russian tankers, my reaction was "oh, it's only a few articles of UNCLOS that covers that, why does he not quote them? Or at least make his legal argument. But no, he said he had taken advice. And yes, it's a potentially gray area even under UNCLOS, but for someone with his legal training it would have taken him no time at all to communicate his reasoning.

Loopylalalou · 19/06/2026 14:32

I've not seen mentioned that Starmer appears to be unliked by some other world leaders - not least Trump. Whilst DT isn’t the best, he holds the mass of power. Our influence is waning as he doesn’t rate Starmer.

SadiraOfTyr · 19/06/2026 14:23

LakieLady · 19/06/2026 13:19

Re getting failed asylum seekers back home, asylum decisions are being made a fair bit more quickly than they were and failed claimants are being removed more promptly.

However, there is now a backlog of appeals waiting to be determined, the wait for a first-tier hearing is well over a year.

Asylum decisions being sped up, small boat crossings down significantly, people smugglers jailed, returns up, asylum hotels being closed, government finally taking the threat of high street money laundering seriously (thanks to the exposés run by the much-maligned BBC)....

It will never be enough though.

"A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has even got its boots on."

ClarkeandNewman · 19/06/2026 14:10

RedTagAlan · 19/06/2026 13:10

I share your hope re Burnham.

I think Starmer is ok. But ok is not really good enough. We need somebody better than ok.

Difficult to explain why I think Starmer is just ok, but I can maybe explain in toolmaker terms.

So a toolmaker does an apprenticeship, Then a good few years on the tools. They might become a foreman, then a toolroom manager. But they can, and do, go back on the tools for a rush job. They might set up their own shop and end up MD of a big company. But they can still go back to the tools.

Starmer, to me, comes across as super ambitious. He start's an apprenticeship, does not finish it. He moves into QA. Is a QA supervisor by the time his fellow apprentices are finishing serving their time. Then Starmer is sucking up to the boss, moves into production. He does just enough to get promoted. Sometimes he is promoted because there is nobody else. He makes it to sales director, then does a hostile takeover to be CEO.

To me, Starmer is always wanting the promotion without being bothered at actually being really good at the steps to get there.

As evidence, he was head of the CPS, but as PM he keeps referring to seeking legal council. Why ? Why is he using other lawyers to advise him when he was the top lawyer.

And I think for him, as PM he is the same. It's a stepping stone to the next bit. A Lord, a world statesman. He appears to always be looking at the next step up with the minimum effort in the actual job of the moment. He passes the job that he is employed to do to advisors.

But we need a time served toolmaker who can go on the tools. Someone who is good at the basics. The stuff that Starmer skipped.

That's how I see it.

You do know that being DPP doesn't mean being chosen because you're literally the best lawyer in the country? That being the head of the CPS doesn't make you an expert in all areas of law? That governments must seek legal counsel - advice - all the time?

Starmer has his faults but there's an awful lot of unsubstantiated silliness on this thread.

ClarkeandNewman · 19/06/2026 14:04

the80sweregreat · 19/06/2026 13:10

It’ll be turmoil for the country , but even more so for AB who has lived in the bubble of being a mayor. A bit like Boris Johnson was and he was a popular one too.
Once the media start digging around what he did as health secretary years ago ( PFI wasn’t that huge a success ) and how one of his current advisors on the payroll gets paid a fortune for two days work ( this was on Facebook and no, I don’t have a ‘source ‘ , but it was on there and don’t know if its true ) and all the other things they may dig up about him , he may find that not be surrounded by people that like him and think his the best thing ever is a whole different ball game especially as our press and X in particular are incredibly hostile.
Its already started with calls for a GE. Keir Starmer can stand as a candidate if there is a challenge. He isn’t going to leave quietly it seems. I feel that the ‘King of the North ‘ may not like the constant criticism he’ll receive , ( only my opinion though )

If you don't know whether things are true, it's best not to present them as fact and hope for the best.

the80sweregreat · 19/06/2026 13:49

The politicians have been talking about growth for years, part of the reason that Liz Truss was elected PM was because she wanted tax cuts and back to the trickle down economy, yet she didn’t last long.
They can’t borrow anymore money, debts have to be paid back and nobody seems to have the answers. It’s all word salad and pie in the sky policies most of the time , that’s how I see it. People don’t seem to know what to do or what direction to take.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 19/06/2026 13:42

@Nottodaty Everything you say is about spending money we don’t have. Neither Starmer or Burnham will face up to that. We are lacking on defence spending and some people need to take far more responsibility for themselves. We have had Starmer and others saying they want economic growth but do very little about encouraging it. We are maxed out with borrowing and repayments are getting more expensive and it’s taking nearly all our income tax take to pay it. We need to wean ourselves off this, thinking we are rich and spending is the answer. Politicians have no clue about business and promoting growth. It is definitely talk from Burnham with no “manifesto”
at all. The Emperor of Westminster is coming but he’s no new clothes! Indeed probably no clothes!

TemperanceWest · 19/06/2026 13:36

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:31

Honestly I don’t have time for this daft made up bullshit you’re talking! So I’m not responding to you any further ans you’re clearly a waste of my time and I will ignore any further attempts at rage baiting by you!

😳

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:31

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:29

It's weird that you think far right protests are peaceful but Starmer is a disgrace for allowing Palestine protests.

Just sayin'.

Honestly I don’t have time for this daft made up bullshit you’re talking! So I’m not responding to you any further ans you’re clearly a waste of my time and I will ignore any further attempts at rage baiting by you!

incidentally · 19/06/2026 13:30

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:29

It's weird that you think far right protests are peaceful but Starmer is a disgrace for allowing Palestine protests.

Just sayin'.

Well yeah, I was thinking this, but trying to avoid being sucked into another puerile slanging match.

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:29

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:25

So you cannot point me to where I said Palestine marches were ok under the tories then! Okay! Thats that solved then! I have no time for people who make up shit that I haven’t said! So I’ll leave you to your make believe stories.
Have a good day!

It's weird that you think far right protests are peaceful but Starmer is a disgrace for allowing Palestine protests.

Just sayin'.

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:25

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:22

So what's the point of calling out the marches happening under Starmer? What was the aim?

So you cannot point me to where I said Palestine marches were ok under the tories then! Okay! Thats that solved then! I have no time for people who make up shit that I haven’t said! So I’ll leave you to your make believe stories.
Have a good day!

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:22

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:19

OMG are you okay?? Please point to where I have said it was ok under the tories and quote it please. Also please read back my comment you have quoted! I honestly dispair at some of you on this thread 🤦‍♀️ There is no hope 😂

So what's the point of calling out the marches happening under Starmer? What was the aim?

ByGraptharsHammer · 19/06/2026 13:20

LakieLady · 19/06/2026 13:19

Re getting failed asylum seekers back home, asylum decisions are being made a fair bit more quickly than they were and failed claimants are being removed more promptly.

However, there is now a backlog of appeals waiting to be determined, the wait for a first-tier hearing is well over a year.

The appeals system for asylum needs to be reformed. All that is happening is that the arguments which the HO is rejecting are being ported into the appeal system. That will not be fast unless the procedure is changed.

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:19

nomas · 19/06/2026 13:17

You seem unwilling to answer the question why marches under Starmer = bad but marches under Tories = good.

OMG are you okay?? Please point to where I have said it was ok under the tories and quote it please. Also please read back my comment you have quoted! I honestly dispair at some of you on this thread 🤦‍♀️ There is no hope 😂

LakieLady · 19/06/2026 13:19

Nottodaty · 19/06/2026 08:17

Things do need to change, I just don’t think changing one talker for another talker.

Nothing seems to be landing with any party and people creating a frenzy, mis information being used for their own narrative.

Unsettling, and worrying. We don’t have the money to keep paying out, we want to look after the most vulnerable but they right now are at risk. We need to ensure we supporting our young people with opportunities or we will loose them. We need to deal fast with the people arriving at our shores - support where needed and if not ticket back home swiftly.

Re getting failed asylum seekers back home, asylum decisions are being made a fair bit more quickly than they were and failed claimants are being removed more promptly.

However, there is now a backlog of appeals waiting to be determined, the wait for a first-tier hearing is well over a year.

Sulgari · 19/06/2026 13:19

keepswimming38 · 19/06/2026 05:57

This is driven by Burnhams ego. I’m really sick of this male machismo shite.

Agreed

it’s very much the Andy Burnham show

Easy to forget he was part of the failed Brown government too

EasternStandard · 19/06/2026 13:18

Flyingintotheunknown · 19/06/2026 13:00

No it isn’t! He’s brought it all on by himself. Even a lot of his own party want him gone. He’s had more resignations from his members in the last few months than I think I’ve ever seen in such a short space of time.

He did get here by himself. Starmer will be gone soon and Burnham can find out if he can turn it around.