Burnham has won. More turmoil?

He talked about incentivising business to create apprenticeships so it is a route available to every young person leaving education. No detail. There are various ways that could be done - maybe removing or reducing employers’ NI for apprentices funded by no longer having to pay benefits. We need trades people - brickies, plasterers, plumbers, electricians - and we need people to learn those trades. It sounds entirely sensible and practical to me.

Come on, that's a cop out. Give us your hard evidence to back up your grandiose claim.
Aside from Trump, which global leaders think negatively of Starmer and why?
And I want evidence of where they have said or shown this.

Plus please explain exactly what he is doing on the world stage that is so wrong

I would have liked him a lot more if he actually had made those things happen. We need to cut welfare.

There are some things where a trained lawyer should not need to take legal advice to make a decision. I personally would have put the decision re UNCLOS and the Russian tankers in that column. That is why I was surprised he took legal advice. Yes it is potentially a grey area. but there is lots of precedent. It's the same international law re drug boats at sea. It should be bread and butter to him.

He talked about putting apprenticeships first, about putting people not businesses first. We need to put businesses first as they are our only hope of getting out of the dire state we’re in. Do you seriously think Andy has a better plan no one has thought of? Cause I don’t.

I just don't recognise anything you are saying here.
If we were discussing perhaps Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak perhaps I would agree but I just don't see where Starmer is busily making such a fool of himself on the world stage?
I think he's actually been very dignified around the whole leadership debacle for example.
Can you give me concrete examples of where he is doing what you say?

Me neither. There's been rather a lot going on on the international stage (to put it mildly) and I think he's acquitted himself well there on the whole. We can't just live in a bubble and pretend that nothing beyond our shores impacts us and it can all be ignored.

I just don't recognise anything you are saying here.
If we were discussing perhaps Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak perhaps I would agree but I just don't see where Starmer is busily making such a fool of himself on the world stage?
I think he's actually been very dignified around the whole leadership debacle for example.
Can you give me concrete examples of where he is doing what you say?

What money did he say he was going to spend? I listened to that speech closely and didn’t hear it.

I’ve heard it all now! Oh it wouldn’t be Starmer’s fault would it… no it must be Trumps!

He is an absolute laughing stock and if you can’t see that then it says more about you! He is a laughing stock for the very reason the world leaders can see his letting his own country go down the pan in favour of some made up dream of “fame” he has of being seen to be the one and only on the world stage.
Trump has also made him feel so small on the world stage many times too while the other leaders laughed on.

If you think the only good thing about him is for him to look good on the world stage while he lets our country and the people of our country go to shit then it really shows just how low your bar is for what you’ll accept from a government! Should be country first before world stage, not sell your country out to look like a big tough guy on the world stage. He looks ridiculous!

Why do you assume that anyone who criticises Labour is a journalist? I'm actually a doctor and business owner but do feel free to carry on throwing insults around. I'm quite happy sitting back and watching the Labour party implode.

This is spades. Andy Burnham made a lengthy speech today about how he’s going to spend lots of money he doesn’t have. If he spends the money we’ll have to borrow more, our interest rate as well as the debt will go up and we will get sucked even further into a black hole. He’s an idiot. Anyone who encourages his idiotic policies is an idiot.

We need to cut welfare spending, send illegal immigration’s back home, and increase income tax. If he’s not talking about doing any of that then he’s talking utter shite, as the bond markets will be happy to spell out to him.

Well......
Let's not buy into excuses, please. I had not heard this Mandelson knowing about any bodies one..... that is a new one .
But, the idea that UK PM should promote an individual who has been close enough to a murder to know where bodies are, instead of handing him to the police? And get it all properly settled and taken to court?
And blackmailing a President of another country!!??
Mandelson was always bad news, interested only in his pocket. And he has brougth zero positives to UK.

@Nottodaty Everything you say is about spending money we don’t have. Neither Starmer or Burnham will face up to that. We are lacking on defence spending and some people need to take far more responsibility for themselves. We have had Starmer and others saying they want economic growth but do very little about encouraging it. We are maxed out with borrowing and repayments are getting more expensive and it’s taking nearly all our income tax take to pay it. We need to wean ourselves off this, thinking we are rich and spending is the answer. Politicians have no clue about business and promoting growth. It is definitely talk from Burnham with no “manifesto”
at all. The Emperor of Westminster is coming but he’s no new clothes! Indeed probably no clothes!

I acknowledge that. But he still holds most power. I’d expect any leader to seek to grow a cooperative relationship with him. Starmer hasn’t done that and we’re just not big enough population wise to have any other say.

Starmer has made things worse - got rid of the 2 child benefit cap and the winter fuel allowance for pensioners not on credit etc. I don’t know anyone who likes him, whether they’re left or right wing.

I acknowledge that. But he still holds most power. I’d expect any leader to seek to grow a cooperative relationship with him. Starmer hasn’t done that and we’re just not big enough population wise to have any other say.

And actually of Labour MPs own making. They have been the most disloyal and unsupportive of all. Of course if the government tries to make decisions and are forced into u turn after u turn by their own party they are going to look completely incompetent.

No government takes legal advice from itself. The Attorney General is the government’s legal adviser. Starmer might grasp the arguments quickly though.

The appeals system for asylum needs to be reformed. All that is happening is that the arguments which the HO is rejecting are being ported into the appeal system. That will not be fast unless the procedure is changed.

Exactly. Trump has been rude to lots of other world leaders too - it's practically a badge of honour to be insulted by him at this stage.

Trump was just angry that Starmer was reticent about getting too involved in the Iran war. Starmer seems to have good relationships with most others on the world stage.

Liz Truss has entered the chat.