Not all men, but always men

True. Just trying to find a silver lining, otherwise despair can overcome you. Also I was responding to the thread topic, which led with murder and attempted murder.

@DimwittedSkater Posted before I’d finished- aside from murder and physical assault, there is the small matter of sexual offences which are absolutely rife and which a great many women have experienced. I don’t think you can reassure women that those sorts of crimes are rare because they aren’t.

I agree that the overwhelming majority of violent crime is committed by men and have long said that it's an epidemic.

Locally though, the man in question regarding the Crocodile enclosure is known to have extremely limited mental capacity, and was accompanied by two carers apparently. The questions likely to be asked will be in relation to risk assessments when taking unpredictable people with severe learning disabilities and almost zero mental capacity into public places. And indeed, what those carers were doing at the time of the incident. I doubt there was any premeditation involved, or that the man had any real concept of what he was doing.

I was at that zoo with my 9yo dd on Sunday and have chosen to shield her from the news because she's autistic and recovering from a lengthy bout of agoraphobia. If she links the incident and the place, we won't be able to visit again and she desperately wants to show her big brother the baby goats over the summer. A tragic incident and I hope that poor little boy recovers and is able to forget what happened.

If I was asked whether murder or suicide was more common, I would answer suicide- I think that’s quite obvious! Purely on an anecdotal level- most people I know have experience of suicide within their family/friendship group/acquaintances whereas knowing a murder victim is much rarer.

So yes, murder is rare, thankfully. But murder is the peak of violent behaviour- as you acknowledge, there is a whole load of other violent behaviour which doesn’t result in death but still results in injury and psychological harm. Unsurprisingly, it is men behind most of this violence. So whilst you’re right that MNers are statistically unlikely to be murder victims, many have or will have experience of violence from men, and women are justified in being worried and/or angry about it. It’s not the case that we can just say ‘Oh well, I’m unlikely to be murdered so I don’t need to worry about violent men at all’.

I was about to say the same.

The statistics are unequivocal. The risks slant heavily one way.

It’s not that it’s impossible for a child to come to harm with a woman, or that it never happens. It’s that the vast majority of violent offending is carried out by men.

A child being adopted by two men is therefore statistically at significantly greater risk of being harmed than if it were adopted by a mixed sex couple or two women.

This is clear. Unless you are very very determined not to see it.

I don't know if I'm missing something here

97% of violent crime is committed by men. A child is most likely to be harmed by a man they aren't related to.

So the natural conclusion here is that leaving a defenseless baby with two such men raises the probability of harm.

But the fact they were 2 men had nothing to do with it, a baby can be adopted by 2 women or a man and a woman and still come to harm the sex of the couple did not cause this

Unfortunately when I (amongst others) raised the question of whether totally defenceless babies should be adopted by two men I was told I was homophobic and narrow minded because lots of men are nice

I just don't get it. People keep crying out for change to happen when almost a child a week is murdered but when faced with the stats they don't like the measures that are the natural conclusion.

No, I've just read a lot on here about how useless CAMHS is and how long the waits are.

There’s a post recently called ‘the behaviour of most men’ on a similar theme. The vast majority were in agreement that most men have dreadful traits/behaviours. I think maybe 70% agreed with that. Obviously that thread was also immediately monopolised by people keen to say women are bad too. Those people clearly don’t understand numbers, maths and statistics generally. YADNBU. Men are terrible. Not all, but most.

This is a really interesting perspective and I imagine the sort of discourse of gender studies courses.

This nails it. I don’t know why so many women seem to be trying to suggest otherwise

Men murder each other more often than they murder women. In the UK, around 400 men are murdered each year (second link) compared to 100-160 women. All, or almost all, of the culprits are men. And overwhelmingly, it's a current or former partner. So men murdering random women is quite rare, actually.

I'm not saying any of it's OK, I'm saying that interestingly, male violence is far from limited to women. It makes me feel slightly better that the main targets seem to be other men.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-pledges-to-protect-more-women-from-violence

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2025

Yes

What do you think women have been doing since the 70s in particular? We've been standing up and creating rape crisis centres and women's shelters since the 70s, providing help for women in DV situations, publicising the horrible statistics in our countries of the number of women murdered by a partner every bloody week, every bloody year.

Why don't you do something, apart from lecturing women on a thread about male violence in a largely women's forum on how they should feel, express themselves, discuss, and act.

Women do bad things all the time are other women made to stand up to that?

Another thing: I don't really get why men have such an issue with their masculinity. I have never, ever felt not feminine enough, and I've never heard my friends say anything like that, either. Maybe it's because most of us have periods, get pregnant, give birth, and maybe breastfeed, and so our female-ness is kind of in our faces?

But what I've come to realise is that men define much of their masculinity in relation to us. I think that's why they want to dominate us, and that's why many men like to dominate women in the bedroom especially. I find it totally weird why their masculinity would depend on us so much. But I guess that's why we have the verb "emasculate" but we don't have a female equivalent. I've never heard a woman say "He effeminated me."

It seems that men give women control over their sense of themselves as men, whereas women don't depend on male validation of our innate womanhood.

Maybe they should develop their sense of masculinity in ways that don't depend on putting women down or attempting to slot them into a subordinate role.

For the men who have answered: Why does your sense of masculinity depend to some extent on women? I just don't get it.

Ok not all men. But I think what would help immensely is if all the men who aren't spoke up loud and clear all the time against the men who are. Why don't they?

And guess what else? If you Google "I hate my husband," there are about 406 million results.

But if you Google "I hate my wife" there are about 600 million results.

Says it all, really. Men resent us far more than we resent them. I wonder why.

And just think of this, does anyone on here really know who's on here, how do you know that someone might be reading this thread, get wound up, then do something stupid, might sound extreme, but you just never know

So women are to blame in your hypothetical scenario, @MrFlintstone . She made me do it.

Spare me the bollocks about "someone" being non-gendered.

Umm, and why did Boudicca start up against the Romans? Because the bastards RAPED her daughters and flogged her!!! I'd be absolutely LIVID if the same thing had happened to me. Men again 🤬

Er, no because they'd be sitting across the table and can see if they're men.

You have to take a good deal on trust on MN and there has, over time, been evidence of men coming on threads to disrupt.

You mean if they don't give into peer pressure?

Am sorry, every person is an adult, capable of doing the right thing. Perhaps these good men who genuinely don't want to hear this kind of shit put their friends into place? Or find better friends? Nothing will change without men wanting it to change and that's the problem.

I wonder if the men in pubs get the same ''if you dont think like all men you must be a women'' like we get on here if all women don't post the same they are accused of being a man

And quite often those women committing fraud or theft are doing it because of a man. To feed his drink/drug habits or keep her children fed & housed while the father pays little or nothing towards their upkeep.