AIBU to ask if shoplifting has effectively been decriminalised?

Of course we care. But we care more about our own lives. These people are either part of organised crime, or junkies. Nobody wants to get hurt. The employers also don’t want a news story out there where an employee gets shoved and smacks their head on the floor, or gets stabbed - some PR that is.

It’s not decriminalised, it’s just too hard to police. Over 10 years in retail and there is nothing you can do. By the time you got your phone out of your pocket to dial 999 they’re gone.

You have to scan a receipt but if you’ve only paid for 5/10 things in your bag it won’t recognise that! Someone could walk in, steal a bags worth, pay for one banana and get out?!

They have that in my Lidl in England. So maybe it will eventually be rolled out here

They do that at Sainsburys. It should be universal in all supermarkets.

Shoplifters are quite literally the scum of the earth and they need to be stopped.

In Lidl‘s in Europe, you have to scan your receipt in order to open the gate to let you out of the store. Maybe we should adopt that practice although I know it would be very expensive to install them everywhere.

Well, this person is unlikely to have accrued that much, but they are a repeat offender with a heroin habit who was given a suspended sentence last time which they immediately broke.
Im confident they aren't going to engage with anything probation can offer in the community and they've refused the option of a residential rehab as an alternative to prison so...

How much stuff does a person have to steal in order to become a prolific shoplifter worthy of a custodial sentence though? I had a Google and most of the shoplifters who were sent to prison seemed to have stolen in excess of £10k. Not in one go but over multiple visits and they convict with cctv. It’s such a lot of money for shops to lose.

I've just written a pre-sentence report for a prolific shoplifter, recommending custody.

So no. It has not been decriminalised

Not automatically...
If you think there are two types of people who shoplift:

1. Junkies/career criminals - either as individuals or as part of criminal gangs
2. People you wouldn't expect. E.g. the parents posting on Facebook someone else mentioned earlier. Either they are doing it out of need or, often, for the thrill. I would also put teenagers in this category

The first category don't care about going to prison. They are often junkies, their lives aren't great and they aren't really planning ahead. Prison could in theory help people like that but it's as rehabilitation not deterrence and short sentences don't do that. Especially not done as punishment.
The second category are often functioning from a misunderstanding of risk. I posted about it upthread but basically if you get away with something once (say there is a 20%chance of it going wrong) you downgrade the risk in your head. So the next time you assume a 10% risk, then a 5% risk. This is not how risk/probability works but it's how humans perceived it. So those people will keep going until they get caught and it all goes wrong for them. Higher sentences won't work because the longer you shoplift the less you think it will happen to you.

I'm not against prison sentences for shoplifting/theft in general. But "increase the deterrence" isn't really a proven way to discourage people. Catching people earlier in their shoplifting career is likely more effective. For junkies, addiction treatment, for teenagers third spaces, youth clubs etc reduces the people in the offending category.

Get rid of all the luxuries in prison. No free playstations etc. Just bare concrete cells. And make the prisoners work for their keep. There's no need for prisons to be so expensive to run.

The country cannot afford to build more prisons and it definitely cannot afford to incarcerate every single shoplifter. Do you know how much it's costs to keep someone in prison?

Build more prisons.

If people knew they would definitely get jail time if caught, there would be a lot less shoplifting.

The odd thing is - carrier bags, (which cost, what is it now? 40p each or something?) seem to be the hardest thing to steal.

Staff will pin those to their bodies, jump in front of you to scan them for you, guard the things like bloody rottweilers and question you when you ask to buy them.

Everything else you can buy in the supermarket, the bread, the milk, the champagne, all seems to be a free-for -all. But do not even look at our 40p bags, you thieves 🤣

I get the sentiment but I can’t even begin to imagine how unpractical it would be. It costs £40k a year to incarcerate someone plus the cost of prosecuting a person. Prisons are already full to brim, where would we stick tens of thousands of thieves?

It’s probably still more difficult in stores with a security guard but in Aldi/lidl I bet it’s fairly easy unless they have a staff member willing to chase them.

The police don’t do much. It was the case years ago when I was a student even. I worked in Greggs for a bit and people would walk in and steal the boxes of donuts from the middle table or sandwiches from the fridge, police weren’t interested.

You would be surprised at how effective that is!

It's known as 'charm & disarm' and prevents appx 40% of thefts.

The organized gangs hate interacting with shop staff & won't target shops where staff are attentive. An interaction eg 'i really like that sirloin steak too, would you like a wine recommendation' to someone you have seen stuffing steak into a bag of far more likely to result in them abandoning the item then a confrontation at the door with physical intervention - that just provokes violence & risks injury.

It actually works best on the most prolific organized retail crime gangs.

On the flip side, you could have situations in America where the police are allowed to kill you if they suspect you of shoplifting. As happened to a 1 year old baby this week, who was shot in his mother's car, as she was suspected of stealing one pack of nappies from Walmart.

I thought under £200 they couldn’t do anything about it. Plus anyway, if I was a security guard on minimum wage, I’m not going to risk getting stabbed because someone’s stolen a six pack and a loaf of bread. Not worth it 🤷‍♀️

They need to give harsh sentences to all shoplifters, no matter how little they have stolen. Even for a grape or a carrier bag they haven't paid for. Throw the book at them and lock them up.

Some of those prosecuted will be repeat offenders. So 500,000 incidents is not 500,000 individuals (and therefore 450,000 getting away with it). One person on a bit of a spree could easily rob from 10 places over a weekend. The first few places record their faces and report. By place number 10 the police/security guard either nab them in the act, or identify them and arrest them at home/wherever. If it goes to court that's likely one prosecution, 10 reported incidents.
The above is a description of the system working perfectly,.exactly as you would want. I'm not saying it does work like that. My point is even in a perfect system you would expect a difference between individual incidents and people procedures. So the discrepancy alone isn't a sign of the system failing.

I suspect they don't get reported as nothing gets done anyway.
There is no deterent.

Yes I agree, this makes total sense.

Peoples posting style on Facebook is becoming more and more daring as the ability to post anonymously is now an option in most groups.

They are bolder when people can't see their names.
..and meaner. Bit like mumsnet.

I'm going to need a hefty pay rise to start rugby tackling shop lifters 😂 we dont tend to trap them in the shop in case they become agressive (we can actually control the doors from the till) not sure how advising on purchases would stop people stealing? Should I ask them what they're having for dinner so they can steal the most appropriate wine?

And it's always been "easy" to shoplift small things in particular. As I said though, the risks of getting caught and the consequences go up even as the person shoplifting perceptions of the risks and consequences decreases. This is a known thing, it's not unique to Broken Britain.