To not allow SEN referral for DS?

so hang on, you want to delay his possible diagnosis... because you are busy?

Are they charging you extra for this ‘service’?
Sounds like an upsell opportunity if you ask me!

Right ok so this sentence to me speaks volumes. A consequence at home for something that happens at nursery is not going to work with a 3 year old. He is three and won't remember. If he does something wrong at nursery he needs to have the consequence straight away at nursery so for example if he hits another child whilst playing cars then he has to be removed from cars to colouring or whatever. Direct consequence = he gets the message.

You being mortified about it and dishing out consequence at home is just a way for you to make yourself feel better that you are parenting him properly. But for a 3 year old it isn't like that he won't learn from that consequence his brain isn't able to do it. Yes he might repeat 'no pudding because I hit Jack today' but he doesn't really get it.

So my advice is to take any assessment or whatever it is they offer, can't be a bad thing and hopefully you'll just get confirmation that you have a normal 3 year old.

And yes, I do think over-diagnosis of mental health conditions in both children and adults is becoming an increasingly big problem in the UK. If you think that makes me ridiculous then I’m fine with that!

I don't think that you are ridiculous @NeonDragon I do think that your opinion is probably ill-informed and judgmental though.

There is no evidence of over-diagnosis. Many stakeholders that actually work in the area will tell you that this narrative just blames the kids that actually need a little help. The real problem is a lack of proper support and of course a lack of funding. But it's much easier to blame the pesky kids with mental health issues, isn't it?

haven't RTFT and I might be leaping but is this a private nursery and does this service cost extra?

A year ago I would have said let them refer and see what happens....

However a few months ago I saw a SEN report of a friends child (who is a perfectly articulate child) and now there is zero chance I'd agree to this.
If i hadnt seen it myself id have said what I am about to say is total bullshit so fair enough if im.called a liar....

Friend was essentially orphaned young and so has limited confidence in mothering. The TA who is SEN support who by friends account is very fond of her dd pushed it hard and she agreed.
Her dd is bright alert a good conversationalist academically where she shpuld be and has a good group of friends and is generally happy.

The report floored me.

The report i saw was in my opinion absolutely "reaching" for an autism diagnosis in a perfectly normal child - the report concluded with no diagnosis but a series of suggested "support strategies" and reevaluation in 6m.
the strategies imo essentially positively reinforced autistic behaviour
It also had bullshit like she should role play modelling healthy friendships with friends - wtf even is that??? Its very meta / eats it own tale for an adult let alone a 6yr old child. It encouraged leaving the classroom when ever she felt like it, introducing fidget toys and earmuffs despite noting she doesnt even complain about auditory overload amd her concentration is fine?!?!?
Imo its virtually training a child to display those behaviours so you can diagnose them.

I'd give them a firm "No thank you"

your child is being offered extra help to get ready for reception. Many parents would spend good money or go to great lengths for this kind of program. You should be thrilled it is available.

your attitude that something like adhd is a label that should be avoided is problematic. While it can be used to access services, ultimately the main value of a label is understanding yourself. Many of us actually prefer being neurodivergent.

There is a flip side to this though.

Not having the correct support but being low needs is very regularly interpreted by teachers as being “average student, bit disengaged” - and that’s just as damaging, probably more so. IF your child has SEN, nobody ever has to know except people who are examining them for academic attainment.

hes too young to be assessed for ADHD anyway,,,

If the Nursery just wants to put extra support in place for your DS, because they are concerned about his listening skills/ concentration, I can't understand why you wouldn't want that for him. Unless it is simply that YOU don't have time to engage.
If I were you, I'd start with a hearing test tbh.

"I would let them do the referral. If there’s no sen then that will become apparent but if there is he will get appropriate support." I disagree with this actually if you really haven't noticed any potential signs of SEN. Sometimes once the lens of SEN is applied, everything can be seen through that perspective. High energy day? Maybe ADHD. Being a bit inflexible another day? Autism.

Normally, I would advocate for getting on waitlists and early identification etc, but where parents really, really have no concerns, it can kind of funnel some kids into the SEN pipeline.

Edit: phone autocorrect!

Yes, I agree. I didn’t realise most of my children had ADHD because I was just as crazy hyper as them! I used to love racing them down the road to school.

My nursery confirmed in writing to me that they did do exactly that when I challenged them on it, so it’s you that is being ridiculous I’m afraid. To be clear I had no other issues with the nursery, it was a great nursery and my DS was very happy there but they should have been upfront about it rather than phrasing it as an intervention and causing additional stress. And yes, I do think over-diagnosis of mental health conditions in both children and adults is becoming an increasingly big problem in the UK. If you think that makes me ridiculous then I’m fine with that!

If this is what they are offering (rather than a diagnostic pathway) you should either take it or move Nursery. What they are saying is that with their regular curriculum and offering they don’t think he will be school ready. This could be a misjudgment on their part and a flaw in their provision, but if you are going to leave him at this Nursery, I’d take the support. The biting and hitting has me wary that this is the best setting for him.

I think you should accept the referral. It sounds like it’s a gateway type programme which may well be necessary to have gone through if, later, you want to try to go down the diagnosis pathway.

IME nurseries are often better than parents at spotting children who are neurodivergent precisely because they see so many kids they have a really good benchmark of what is out of the ordinary. Whereas at home you just have his sister, plus he’s operating in a low-demand environment.

If you take the referral then chances are that if there is no additional need this will be fed straight back to the nursery.

I’ve seen quite a few kids where the parents have refused to accept that there is anything wrong/ support, and what tends to happen is that they struggle through primary (often with quite a lot of intervention) then the wheels fall off in late primary/ secondary. And you really don’t want to be trying to get an ECHP for a 13 year old, or trying to get medication once all the hormones kick in and you don’t have a diagnosis.

And you dont want that for your child? They"re not referring your son because the behaviour he is displaying is normal for three year olds. Don't wait until Reception.

practically it will be years wait to be accessed
by then he will be older, probably in school so you will have a much clearer idea if he has any additional needs
and if he is accessed and has no SEN that is what the report will say

that’s better than not getting put on the waiting list and then thinking it might be needed

Sorry to add - maybe the move has unsettled him a bit and he’ll settle. This support they’re offering may then help the transition to school?

They won’t be, because ADHD isn’t diagnosed til age 7 for this exact reason. It will be something else. I think you should go for it. It’s just a single form to fill in.

I think you’re better off accepting the help now. If you refuse and have problems down the line it could go against you. Waiting times are usually long so it’s better to get the support in now. They wouldn’t have suggested it for no reason. Kids act differently in different settings and contexts. What you see at home maybe different at school. If they can support him now then school will be easier for him.

regarding your work and meetings etc - yeah it’s tough but your kid comes first and it’s better to get support early. If he doesn’t need it and nothing more comes of it then that’s great. But if you decline and school is tricky then it can lead to school refusal and school suggesting reduced timetables. That will have a bigger impact on your work and meetings.