AIBU to think that all men are…

I am sure that there are many good men out there, I know some who are married to my friends and family.
That said, I have never been involved with a :decent ' one.
And my experience supports that when you meet a man who is divorced with young children, it quickly comes to light why their ex wives divorced them.
Cynical but true.

I agree with you. My DH is a superior person than I am. Patient, supportive, hardworking, always thinking of others etc
Thank God I was attractive enough to bag him and intelligent enough to keep him 😂

YABU to think 'all men' are anything, frankly.

It would piss me off to be told, by a bloke, 'Oh well - all women are...'

People are individuals. It doesn't help to say, 'Yeah, well - most men..'

I still don't want to be told 'Most women are nags. Most women can't drive properly. Most women are hysterical/over sensitive/got no sense of humour'.

Posts like this are irritating because they are written by bigots.

Absolutely!

I remember once being really upset after a long term relationship broke up. It wasn’t an easy relationship. My partner had mental health issues that resurfaced - nothing violent or abusive to me, mostly self hate that was difficult to live with. But there was a lot of good there too. My friends and family seemed really surprised that I wasn’t wholly relieved and happy that the relationship was finally over. I asked why, and they said that all I ever told them was about the awfulness of it all. Now perhaps I should have shared more of the good, but I thought they saw that when they saw us together and besides, it’s often the hard things that we need to share/ vent/ talk about. To go on and on about how good things are and how much we’re in love doesn’t feel so needed. And it feels rather boastful. But maybe we should more often. Share the happiness especially when the world so often feels so grim.

I often hope that MN is that. That people are venting and that they’re not all in horrendous relationships with people that they not only seem not to love but also not to like. I often feel in the minority on here as I like my DP and he’s a rather good person. Of course he can be an idiot at times and unreasonable and incredibly annoying. But so can I. Also, unlike the impression you’d get from most of MN, he’s far tidier and organised than me!!! I leave cupboard doors open and wet towels on the bed, he’s the magic fairy who comes along later and sorts it out! I’m sure (I know!) that he finds that deeply annoying, but I’m also pretty sure he can see past the little things.

that’s because you’re not in a relationship with your dad, brothers or uncles. You don’t need a high level of cooperation from them.

It really is. There was a wonderful, admirable teenage boy on the radio a few weeks back, fighting hard against the message that masculinity is fundamentally toxic. he said when he put the word 'masculinity' into Google, all the top searches were coupled with the word 'toxic' and this leads young boys and men to believe their own natural masculinity is perceived as toxic. Hostility breeds hostility. We need to ensure young men are encouraged to embrace healthy masculinity - to take pride in being strong, hard working, ethical, brave, caring, protective etc.

Because a lot of the times fathers aren't there. Which is crap, because they should be. I'm not excusing them. I'm just saying that if a woman is 100% responsible for raising a son, then 100% of the responsibility for raising a good man belongs to the woman. So if that son grows up to be a shit man, then yes, I can blame the woman!

Look, I'm a woman, I think women mostly get the shitty, short end of the stick of life, but I'm not blind or stupid to my sex, women are not the helpless, passive weaklings that some make them out to be. Irrespective of the input of any man in their child's life, it is our responsibility as PEOPLE (who happen to be women) to make sure that the good attitude over rules any shitty influence. That's just the way it should be. So yes, 50% of the influence may try to pass on their crap attitude, it's up to the other 50% to make sure it doesn't stick.

You are making it women's job to raise good sons. Why is that not their fathers' duty?
And you are making it the fathers job to raise good sons, why is that not their mothers' duty? It's time to take responsibility rather than trying to blame someone else. Whichever way you look at it women are 50% to blame because we are 50% of the influence (and in reality probably more) and that's something you cannot argue with.

My dad, brothers, grandad and uncles/great uncles seem to be alright, the men I've been in relationships with have been shite. I'm stayed single! I'm hopeful I'll raise DS to be one of the good ones.

I know lots of really lovely men who pull their weight including my husband who is really driven at work, keeps himself fit and is very house proud (more than me!) plus a great dad. I have noticed that some women enable their husband’s shit behaviour by treating them like a child. When my husband has the kids I leave him to it, I don’t micro manage him by packing bags and selecting outfits etc. I don’t know any men who sit around playing video games while their wives do everything.

@JustJugglingCats
" If a man is raised by a woman, who is at fault for the man's attitude and behaviour?"

Oh for heaven's sake, you are still doing it! Why would a man be raised by a woman? You are contradicting yourself if you imply that it is a woman's role to raise good men. By your alleged logic, women should refuse to accept that it is our sole duty to raise good men, just as we should shun the notion that it is our sole duty to do the housework etc. Their fathers should be excellent role models, surely. Their fathers should be ensuring their sons grow up to do their share.

And if they are raised by single mothers... Er...is it not the fathers' and society's responsibility to ensure the role of raising children is shared fairly and effectively between both parents?

Get those absentee fathers to step up. Make it a point of social shame if a man isn't a good dad. It used to be cool to drink and drive when I was a teen. Now it is seen as pathetic,shameful and something no good friend would allow someone to do. We could do the same with absentee fathers - make it the saddest most pathetic least desirable quality a man could have, to walk away from pregnant women and young children. We could as a society, normalise good parenting by men, so that anyone who slips is villified - just as good enough mothering is normalised and sub-par mothering is villified.

Sorry to hear of all the people dealing with shit men, in my experience though:

Partner - amazing, most wonderful man/dad to our children. He is a fantastic human being
Dad - great person, raised me on his own, still my number one confidant
Brother - brainbox, responsible, go-getter, brilliant with my children, they adore him
FIL (partner’s dad) - amazing man, would do anything for anyone, generous, kind and one hell of a father and grandfather

These are the men I am closest to in my life so I guess my personal view is that I’m lucky enough to say that the men I know are truly wonderful

I think I’ll become a lesbian after the menopause. The hormones are still there currently but after they die off, I might as will switch teams.

ALL men are really pretty useless is an awful message for boys and young men to have to hear!!!

They aren’t all useless but a lot are. Many men are self-centred purely because they can be (because they are surrounded by women who do stuff for them so they can concentrate on their jobs or hobbies in a way that women often can’t). I think it would be fair to say that- overall- women spend a lot more time doing things for other people than men do outside of the workplace. Bringing up children, looking after elderly relatives, taking extra care of friends who are going through difficult times etc. So we tend to spread ourselves a lot thinner and feel more responsibility for helping to look after the people around us. Coupled with our much lower rates of violence, that makes women just better humans than men overall.

And yes, I had a wonderful dad- truly a good man- the opposite of lazy or useless. But Mum did most of the child-rearing and house stuff even though she too worked full-time in a challenging career. She also looked after her elderly father, joined the PTA, ran a Guides group and volunteered in the community, while Dad’s free time was mostly spent bike riding or sailing. Both lovely people and excellent parents, but Mum was doing the lion’s share of the work of life, and therefore had a greater positive impact on others than Dad did.

@JustJugglingCats

"But why can't women blame other women for not raising their sons better?"

I despair. You do realise you are doing exactly what you are saying we shouldn't do? You are making it women's job to raise good sons. Why is that not their fathers' duty?

Children of both sexes learn from their parents, for good or bad. Who's fault is it then..? If a man is raised by a woman, who is at fault for the man's attitude and behaviour? And please don't say "the internet" because someone raised the people who put the stuff on the internet.

And if women allow themsleves to be doormats, and to do all the cooking and cleaning and childcare whilst moaning about it on MN. Who's fault is that? Stil mens?

And I'm NOT talking about victims of abuse, that is obviously very different and far more nuanced. I'm just talking about the low level crap that MN is full of... How do I make my husband do some housework, how do I make him take the bins out, why won't my husband look after the kids on his own, why does my husband get to go to the gym every night for 4 hours and I can't even have a bath in peace..? Because you didn't put your foot down the first time he did / didn't do it and now he thinks it's normal and you just assum he should be different. And that's why I sigh...

YABVU. Because all men aren't. As you know.

That teenage boy recently who swam miles through the night from a boat stranded out at sea, to get rescue for his mum and sister who were too weak to do the swim themselves? What a shit, eh? Nelson Mandela? Scum. That man who made himself a human bridge between a sinking boat and a rescue boat so people could literally walk over him to safety? Hate him. The bus driver who swerved and saved the life of the woman thrown into the road? What a louse. Alan Bates, tirelessly fighting for the rights of all his fellow postmasters and mistresses when everyone else gave up? Who needs arses like that, eh?

The world is full of good, kind men who go under the radar. And genuinely heroic men whose value gets dimmed by bad news. It's true that most of the worst behaviour in the world is done by men, not women. That is an issue. And it's true that men get idolised if they do even half the domestic load most women do without comment. That is infuriating and unfair.

But many men are decent, kind, brave, gentle, protective, loyal, hardworking, loving, community spirited, honest. I think we need to raise their profile. make heroes of them, so that society stops bigging up tossers like Trump and Musk and instead idolises men like Alan Bates who campaign for fairness and justice.

Stop blaming women for men’s faults ya rocket

Anything that starts with “all men are” is likely to be factually incorrect.

some men are useless. Not all are. My husband certainly isn’t.

But why can't women blame other women for not raising their sons better? Their sons are the ones that make the world the sexist sea you talk about... It's not just up to the fathers to raise better sons, it's up to the mothers too. And since there seem to be so many absent fathers these days, not influencing anyone, then it's 100% on the mothers to raise better sons.

In fact, you could look at it another way, since there are so many single mothers these days, with no fatherly influence, surely men should be BETTER these days, as they only have their mothers guidance on how to be better future partners. Just think about that... Yes, it's utterly crap that so many men are buggering off. But that's the perfect teaching moment for the remaining parent (the mother, the woman), to teach their son that this is wrong and why it's wrong.

We need to stop blaming men for everything and take some of the responsibility and look at what WOMEN can control and what WOMEN can change. Men behave how they behave because there are enough women out there to put up with all their shit and marry them anyway! You only have to read threads on here from women who say their husband has always been useless, has never done housework, has never done a day of child care and they have 3 kids... Why? Why would you have child 2 & 3 when he didn't step up for the first? Why did you marry him when he never lifted a finger to do any housework? Why did you stay with him when you had to do all the cooking? Why didn't you raise your daughters to be strong enough to know their own worth? If you take the view it's mens' fault that sons grow up rubbish, then by default, it must be womens' fault that daughters grow up to accept such rubbish. WOMEN need to STOP putting up with so much crap. WOMEN need to walk away from useless boyfriends who turn into useless husbands who turn into useless fathers. Yes, some men are crap. They would be less crap if WOMEN as a whole said enough, no more. We need to stop being so bloody passive. Saying all men are crap is lazy, we are 50% of the population and if we don't like how the other 50% are behaving then it's up to us to stop putting up with it and moaning about it!

People of BOTH sexes will be lazy and selfish if the people around them allow them to be. Men appear to be more selfish and lazy because the womenfolk in their lives let them get away with it... Time to stand up and take control.

I don’t think they are useless.

I think those who pretend to be useless do so when convenient as it benefits them.

But when people think of their dad they think of a nice man that taught them to ride a bike and went to work. They don’t see the endless shit their mothers had to put up with. The vast majority of retired men I know rely entirely on their wives for their social lives, diary keeping, cooking, cleaning, medical appointments and general life admin despite the fact they’re retired and have all the time in the world to do these things themselves.

Being a romantic partner or coparent with a man is very very different to seeing them ‘on display’ at work, or in a social setting.

But why can't women blame other women for not raising their sons better? Their sons are the ones that make the world the sexist sea you talk about... It's not just up to the fathers to raise better sons, it's up to the mothers too. And since there seem to be so many absent fathers these days, not influencing anyone, then it's 100% on the mothers to raise better sons.

In fact, you could look at it another way, since there are so many single mothers these days, with no fatherly influence, surely men should be BETTER these days, as they only have their mothers guidance on how to be better future partners. Just think about that... We need to stop blaming men for everything. They behave how they behave because there are enough women out there to put up with all their shit and marry them anyway! You only have to read threads on here from women who say their husband has always been useless, has never done a day of child care and they have 3 kids... Why? Why would you have child 2 & 3 when he didn't step up for the first? Why did you marry him when he never lifted a finger to do any housework? Why did you stay with him when you had to do all the cooking? Why didn't you raise your daughters to be strong enough to know their own worth? WOMEN need to STOP putting up with so much crap. WOMEN need to walk away from useless boyfriends who turn into useless husbands who turn into useless fathers. Yes, some men are crap. They would be less crap if WOMEN as a whole said enough, no more. We need to stop being so bloody passive. Saying all men are crap is lazy, we are 50% of the population and if we don't like how the other 50% are behaving then it's up to us to stop putting up with it and moaning about it!

People of BOTH sexes will be lazy and selfish if the people around them allow them to be. Men appear to be more selfish and lazy because the womenfolk in their lives let them get away with it... Time to stand up and take control.

yes to everything you listed and more
my 'd'H has taken to saying 'you hate men' to me and it's true, every last one of them that i know, plus a whole host that i've never met but read about in the media: all up to some level of fucking bullshit
I agree with the first poster "most men are cunts"
for sure my Dad, brother and 'd'H are or have behaved like cunts in the past
my perimeno rage is firmly directed at the male species

That's so refreshing to read on here.

Sometimes I think if young inexperienced women post/read here, they will get the impression all men are bastards even before they have had their own experiences.
Obviously your dad, brothers, uncles, etc. can influence your way of thinking, but it's always best to keep an open mind and not be swayed by other women's tales of woe.
On a forum like this; the bad is often talked about rather than the good.