If you support Reform, Restore, Greens and similar far right/left parties

There were lots of posts about it on various threads along with speculation about Starmer's sexuality.

Heaven forbid the PM is held accountable. He's certainly busy at the moment with Russian threats that aren't about fake stories.

I didn't realise it got a lot - I saw a gleeful thread about it. Where it wasn't really believed but it was just seen as another thing to attack the PM with.

It definitely got a lot of traction on here. As did the "press blackout" narrative that was equally untrue.

Interestingly the Russian Rent Boy story appeared to get traction on here and other places but was never mentioned offline to me even though I know people with very diverse political opinions. I thinknthey tried very hard to make it a big thing but it didn't land because it didn't fit with most people's existing ideas about Starmer. Whereas rumours that meet existing prejudices people might have work better. The problem is social media etc make it very easy for bad actors to fire of a barrage of different rumours/half truths/complaints and see what sticks. It's not that the techniques are new. Technology means it can be done much more efficiently and at scale.

I'm definitely not a Reform voter and though there's things I like about the Greens some of their policies are 🙄. I also think where there are politicians/public figures very clearly cosyig up to Russia or receiving money from dodgy sources(I name no names) that should be seen as a clear warning that they don't genuinely have the best for Britain at heart.

BUT I think one thing that gets lost is that successful foreign shit stirring campaigns don't tend to create something out of nothing. It's very hard to manufacture outrage where there is none, it's very easy to exacerbate existing grievances into something much bigger. That means that, there are two ways this sort of interference damages public discourse:

1. Whipping everything up into a superheated angry argument. Causing greater division etc
2. Making it easy to dismiss grievance as "whipped up/not real". Concerns can be very real AND being exploited to cause division (even if I disagree with her I think my mum's opinions on the EU were real). In fact, it makes discourse harder because e.g. a right wing voter could accuse someone who disagrees with them of being "affected by propaganda/foreign bots" and a left wing voter could say the same. It erodes faith in democracy/discussion which is very much the intention. In reality we are all affected by algorithms etc in social media that doesn't mean it's impossible to come to an informed opinion or to disagree with someone else.

The individuals who are brazenly taking money or sucking up to governments (or individuals) opposed to UK interests are Not To Be Trusted however. TBH even when the country is an "ally" it's disturbing to see a British public figure talking about putting them first.

What is shocking is that the Russian-originated smear was spread here on a Mumsnet thread. I thought it was desperate for posters to do that. I mean it's a more accurate report in the Daily Mail ....

Russian spy orchestrated arson attacks on PM - then started wild conspiracy theory that it was revenge by two Ukrainian rent boys | Daily Mail Online

The usual anti Russian message ?

Another link
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15902423/Russian-spy-orchestrated-arson-attacks-PM-started-wild-conspiracy-theory-revenge-two-Ukrainian-rent-boys.html

Go to @joshspero.ft.com on bluesky, he has provided a non paywalled link to his article. But essentially:

A Russian online sabotage network was behind a series of arson attacks on Sir Keir Starmer’s family home and other targets linked to the UK prime minister, an FT investigation has found.

Prosecutors in the case did not disclose information about the identity of Lavrynovych’s handler, other than to reveal that they used the Telegram handle “El Money” and communicated in Russian and Ukrainian.

An FT investigation based on Telegram archives, cryptocurrency wallets, court evidence and interviews with western officials has established that El Money was located in Russia and was closely aligned with NoName057(16), a pro-Kremlin hacktivist group that the US has called a Russian “state-sanctioned project”.

It is excellent. I was able to read it the first time I went into it. I will see if there is a share token somewhere.

I can't. It's paywalled.

Did you read the FT article?

The end of the article says they have no evidence it was Russia. This is just the usual anti Russian message.

It is not just the BBC saying this. The FT has a very good investigative article:

https://www.ft.com/content/dd79d6eb-44e4-4365-8c6e-a4fd64b211c8?syn-25a6b1a6=1

@Yellownotblue Did you read to the end of the BBC article you linked? This is just the usual highly questionable BBC reporting we all know well and why trust in the organisation is at rock bottom.

Quote (my bold):

Cdr Helen Flanagan, head of Counter Terrorism Policing London, said the aim of the attacks was clearly "to intimidate and create fear for the prime minister and to attack the UK". But she said police have not been able to prove the identity of EL or who he was working for, and that "we've got no evidence to suggest that this was a state-backed threat".

However, sources have told us that authorities in the UK and in Ukraine have privately concluded Russia was behind the arson attacks.

The Green party are not ‘far left’. they are the most left wing party we have among the major parties but that doesn’t make them far left.
I don’t think any of the parties have the best interests of normal people at the centre of their ideology and that is the problem.

I think we can both agree that he is not a reliable source of information anyway!!

You are right, I should have said MP or 'elected politician'.

He is not an MP, but if someone is appointed to speak regularly on behalf of a recognised political party, does that not make them a politician?

Yusuf is Reform's spokes person not a politician.

Not paywalled
https://www.cityam.com/serco-hits-back-after-zia-yusuf-accuses-ftse-250-firm-of-being-hostile-to-reform/

Good idea. Your agenda has been clearly exposed on this thread, so there isn't much point in you wasting any more of your time here. Go and see if you can find a more gullible audience for your disinformation instead. I'm sure you'll have more fun.

Why have I deemed Zia Yusuf to be an unreliable source?

Er...because he is a politician with a very clear agenda? And because anyone can post any old shit on Facebook without the need for evidence or references or fact checking etc? Is it not obvious?

Do you always believe everything that every politician ever tells you?

There was no report that Serco would be declining to bid for a mass deportation contract for political reasons. That bit was made up. The report simply stated that they would not be involved in that particular work. It gave no reason as to why.

Out of interest, why do you think it would be a problem if a private company decided not to bid for a specific government contract anyway? Do you believe that government should have the power to compel private companies to tender for opportunities that the government wishes to outsource?

I'm not a fan of Serco at all. Actually, I don't like them very much. But I like disinformation even less. And I dislike the way in which you have been spreading it.

Quite. I can’t help being a bit intrigued by the aggressive reactions on here but it seems there is little to back it. I’ll go and enjoy some more positive threads.

Why have you deemed Zia Yusuf an unreliable source. Do you have any basis for this other than him reacting to a report from another reliable source, or is it just that you disbelieve everyone whose politics you dislike?

Anyway, before you posted your mis/disinformation, you clearly did not bother checking your facts, as Serco had in fact already issued a statement clarifying its position and confirming that it does not comment on the policy programmes of political parties. tender opportunities they wish to respond to and which they do not, because they are private companies.

If a private company who is a huge government contractor declines (or suggests that they would decline) to provide services for political purposes then that is a problem. That has now been clarified which is great news.

Anyway, before you posted your mis/disinformation, you clearly did not bother checking your facts, as Serco had in fact already issued a statement clarifying its position and confirming that it does not comment on the policy programmes of political parties.

Oh my lord, I read it last night and mentioned it this morning. I’m very pleased that it had been cleared up and that Serco are now confirming that they are not taking a political position on this. Me not being 100% up to date with a recently developing situation is not deliberately spreading disinformation. I acknowledged their confirmation earlier in the thread and am pleased. That doesn’t mean the earlier allegations were false or deliberately spreading misinformation.

You and other pps are being rather aggressive in your response to this. Are you particular fans of Serco?

I still haven’t seen any evidence of this shadowy Russian involvement everyone is so worried about or any real life consequences- apart from Starmer’s car?

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were spreading misinformation due to ignorance/poor critical thinking skills,

Don’t do me any favours, I don’t really care if you give me the ‘benefit of the doubt’ or not.

Not at the moment. It will be a big battle.