AIBU to find career advice from privileged speakers tone deaf?

Yes! So much of the advice given seems to be based around having the confidence and knowledge that a more priviledged upbringing gives you. I remember being told about something I wrote, "you should get this published". That's great, but how? How am I, from a working class background, no contacts, even supposed to know where to begin? Or even who to ask to find out where to begin?

I both agree and disagree with you.

Her solution is NOT right for many people and yes, it can sound tone deaf and I don't blame you at all for rolling your eyes on this one.

But, there may well be people in that room who do have the financial wherewithal to do this, but don't feel they can - they worry it will affect their career, how people will look at them etc. So for those people, perhaps it IS useful.

A friend of mine gave up a well paid job in IT in the city to retrain to a role that was very low paid. that story by itself might well make you think, "easy for her, she obviously has a rich husband" but actually, it was really really hard for them as a couple. When they decided to do it, they immediately cut back on everything. Then they put a timeline in place - she sucked it up for a year so that they could save as much as possible before she resigned. They made a lot of decisions in between to facilittae it. if you listen to her speak, she'll tell you iut was a good decision, but also the hardest thing they've ever done.

I'm reasonably successful in a very male dominated field so I've have been asked previously to attend "Women in ..." events to share how I got to where I am. To what end I don't know, my career path is fairly unconventional, it's not a route you'd recommend to someone wanting to get to the same position, I don't have children so can offer no insight on juggling work and motherhood. I mean the best thing I ever did career wise was quit my job with nothing to go to as I was sick of being micromanaged but it's not something I'd hold up as an example of how to do things!

Yes 100% this. Not always but usually. It’s not what you know and all that… It’s the same with the “entrepreneurs” advising young people not to bother with uni on YouTube, really boils my piss.

I attended a writing course by a childless male full time writer who emphasised the importance of finding out what time of day you are at your most creative and writing then.

Oh how lovely.

the women who have SAHH, a helping hand with childcare or money to survive burnout are privileged and the women who create opportunities, network and make themselves invaluable shagged their way to the top.

there really is no winning for women is there?!

We are a bunch of mums with kids just left uni and a couple bemoaning the job market, applying but not getting anywhere. Then one mum pipes up ‘oh Sam is doing brilliant just bought a BMW (second hand but even so)’ and another ‘yes Imelda loves her job and such good pay…I’m sure yours will find something soon if they keep trying’. The difference? Both work for their Dads. Neither has been to a job interview in their lives. Both waltzed in to a position and salary no one of their age and (no) experience would be offered (neither had been to uni). Great - I’d love to be able to give my kid a job (and I certainly don’t believe a degree endows anything special nor am I implying these kids aren’t good at their work), but it’s the smugness about their child’s ’achievements’ and the proffered advice that kills me.

Even Bill Gates started with a collosal amount of luck. Luck that his parents could send him to an excellent private school. And extra luck that that school had some of the first computers for pupils to play around around and learn on. Bill and his mates got ahead of people years before computers were in most offices. They learnt to code before coding was a thing.

I agree with you. It’s usually from people of the generation above mine who have been able to take advantage of lower house prices, lower cost of living in general, and none or low student loans which they probably paid off ages ago. Meanwhile, we have a decent household income, but one DC in nursery and one that needs wraparound at school, high student loans that we’re still paying and high mortgage costs. Any pay rises goes on student loan increases and gets more than wiped out by nursery fees rises. I’m battling young DCs, I have ASD and ADHD (and DC been referred too), and entering peri years, work in a professional intense job 4 days a week and no, I can’t afford to take time off work for half a year.

As well as having the nannies around the click as backup, I bet these sanctimonious inspirational speakers also had their mum or MIL nearby at their beck and call. They never acknowledge this to other mums struggling without daily, free help.

I'm actually a consultant anaesthetist too! Only two DC though. Limped through the last years of training part time, relying on non-medic DH to do nursery runs etc. Obviously took a pay/career progression hit to do that, but I've got there in the end. Still wonder if I've got the balance right - but I don't put myself in front of panels as an example of how we can "have it all!"

I find your post tone deaf. Do you realise how bad burnout is? My dh was off work for a long time. Couldn't drive. Probably will never fully recover. As he recovered I got cancer. Was I also lucky to get time off?

i roll my eyes whenever I read articles about ‘superwomen’ with high flying careers and lots of kids. You are either at work or with your kids, you can’t be both. Make a choice, no judgement but they make it seem like I run a billion dollar company and still make all my children’s football games and I’m like, no you really don’t.

This is similar to a story I heard at a women in banking conf. One of the panel was a very successful head of European sales, her husband also worked in Investment Banking. They had 2 young children. Alot of the conf discussions were about childcare. She was great, then another panel member piped up. She had told him backstage that to get it to work they employed TWO nannies, a day nanny and a night nanny. 2000 women gasping is a strange sound!

Reminds me of on mumsnet when people talk about someone they know who did badly at school and got minimal qualifications but earns far more than they do who is well qualified. It's always a man they're talking about.

I thought it was just me. We had inspirational talk from a woman who had been a heroin addict and prostitute then used that grit to get to an amazing height. Except all of us had background checks that flagged family members with criminal records and any time out of the country more than 3 weeks. No way she’d have got an entry level job which a former prostitute and heroin addict with no education would be applying for to get the chance to show their grit. Her take away seemed to be that we’d all had it too easy and being successful relied on a tragic back story.

A man I worked with told me that he didn’t agree with wfh (this was about 12 years ago).
He didn’t need it for childcare, blah, blah.

I asked him ‘what does your wife do for a living?’.
Yep - you guessed it! She was a SATM.

I was genuinely irritated by such a witless statement, so i rather tartly said: of course you didn’t have childcare obligations, if your wife was doing all of it!’

I felt a bit embarrassed about it afterwards, cos i wondered if I was a bit too ‘tart’ for the office. But he had annoyed me with his sweeping pronouncements, when he knew fuck all about it.

Ahh, a kindred spirit, i see. I share your cynicism, my friend.

The cynic in me wonders if she had much more of the director than his ears…

Oh I can top that!

Back in the late 90s there was a very prominent male surgeon in the SE who had been a traditional posh male trainee (public school, med school rugby team, then married a nurse who became a SAHW to look after his kids and house while he was working 90 hours weeks. Became a consultant, healthy private practice, golf, etc). He then transitioned in his late 50s after 15 years or so as a consultant, when his kids had left home. Good for him, living his best life etc, obviously hadn’t actually been very happy despite following the “template to success” to the letter.

Except that other male surgeons then used him as a shining example of “how women can succeed in surgical training”. Apparently all women needed to do to succeed in surgical training was be a man while they were doing it. Infuriating.

(to be clear, the trans surgeon was not holding themselves up as a beacon to women - it was the same male surgeons who would tut about female surgeons deskilling on maternity leave).

This reminds me of when Beverley Turner called out her ex husband the Olympian, James cracknell when I think he talked about his success without mentioning her. He was only able to have that success whilst she kept everything ticking over at home. So many very successful people only are able to be that successful because they have a partner at home holding it together. If you are a single parent or one where both of you are working full time, it isn’t as easy to juggle everything and be successful, particularly if your salaries doesn’t stretch to a team of flexible nannies.

Although I remember going to a session at work (civil service) about being a woman / mother and juggling work. One of the seniors (who was bonkers anyway) offered up ‘marry a man with no ambition and let him stay at home and raise the children’. Obviously not that helpful for those who had already chosen their husbands……

Ergh this!
I listened to one where a billionaire was saying how he struggled and sofa surfed, put every penny he had into his business. All the while he had a newborn. Who was obviously looked after by the mum not sofa surfing and paying for everything for their child career obviously impinged whilst he was completely absent. They were not a couple. He said how hard it was for him and what a wonderful relationship he has with his now adult child now he he is a billionaire. He was completely oblivious to the fact had he been the mum in that situation there would be no option to just comfortable know your child was taking care of whilst you put all your focus on a business.
Ofcourse his advice was anyone can do it if you want it enough 😴

Having worked in media and events for a long time, the vast of majority of those "inspirational" speakers are insufferable, pathological narcissists. There's always a sob story of how their life became increasingly difficult and they ended up being diagnosed with ADHD.

If they make a huge selling point about coming from a working class family, you can bet everything they're actually married to a millionaire now but they will obviously never mention that.

If they make a huge deal about having children as well, they're actually terrible mothers and leave their kids in childcare 12 hours a day or with their partner and nannies while they go off travelling to events.

So yeah, all smoke and mirrors. It's totally exhausting to make your own life story into a product to sell and you need a special level of self-absorption to do that. All these keynote speakers and motivational speakers give off an icky vibe when you meet them in real life.

At least that’s realistic I suppose @SockQueen, not as in realistic advice for others but realistic in what she needed to do that.

A friend who became a consultant anaesthetist with 3 kids worked part time, and to do that she had three nannies on rotation.