Boris, Farage and Gove re Brexit-“Never have so few done so much damage to so many with so little ability to execute what they lied about.”

Well, surely in that scenario, those who still disagree will be able to counter my perspective with reasoned arguments and solid evidence of the various ways in which they believe that Brexit has benefited the UK, and they will be able to articulate exactly why they think we're better off now despite the massive hit to our economy, as per the assessment of the OBR and other independent sources?
But, as we're living in the real world, why do they have to? What are you going to do if you think their arguments don't come up to scratch?

The Brexit deal that we ended up with was agreed by Boris Johnson - one of the leading voices of the Brexit campaign and probably the most influential.

It's quite striking that you think that even the chief architects of Brexit didn't actually personally believe in it.

As you say, they were perhaps more concerned with their own personal ambition, and hence the Leave campaign led the electorate into making a decision that was disastrous for the country but probably lined their own pockets quite nicely.

A previous Government report outlines some world-trading benefits of Brexit. However, the sad truth is that other world events, like the Covid Crisis, took focus away from our political leaders who had to pay lip service to the result of the referendum, but had no personal belief in nor desire to truly 'get Brexit done'. Hence we've been left in an utter mess, having 'leaders' who have no love of Great Britain and its peoples, but only want to lead their own climb up the greasy pole of power.

What happens if they still disagree with me?

Well, surely in that scenario, those who still disagree will be able to counter my perspective with reasoned arguments and solid evidence of the various ways in which they believe that Brexit has benefited the UK, and they will be able to articulate exactly why they think we're better off now despite the massive hit to our economy, as per the assessment of the OBR and other independent sources?

The fact that the Brexiteers seem more eager to shut the discussion down rather than highlight how they believe we have all benefited leads me to draw my own conclusions.

It's not the difference in political opinions that's the rub. And never has been. Only the more credulous would suggest that.

It's far more nuanced than that ...

I thought it was David Cameron who gave the vote to British people, and the British people voted 52% leave. Whatever you or I think, the majority voted to leave.

David Cameron threw his toys out of the pram cos he misread the mood of the country, (same as is happening now), and resigned (Keir won’t resign)

Why should Farage hold his head in shame? He has always sang the same tune.

Boris didn’t have any balls whilst in power, plenty of bravado in his few inches in a weekly rag, but when it came to anything he “spaffed” it up the wall!

I think Keir is taking this country further to the right than any of the right wingers would have dreamed of.

I'm interested in understanding why you seem so eager to brush this monumental fuck-up under the carpet. As a nation, do you not think it is important for us to collectively reflect on what went so horribly wrong and how so many of the electorate were manipulated into voting against their own interests? Would it not make more sense for the nation to learn from its mistakes so that the electorate can make better decisions in the future?

As unphased posted above, can you provide me figures for this 'fuck up', having stripped out the effects of other world events?

So, no, I don't think that there should be reflection on this, especially as this 'reflection' comes couched in fairly vile language from other posters. To be honest, you come across as 'if we explained to all these people how wrong they were, they would be bound to agree with us (then put on their hair shirts)'. What happens if they still disagree with you? You know, being autonomous human being and all?

Please can someone tell me or so me actual evidence, not estimates suggest, think tanks estimates etc, which can strip out the damage done from covid, the war in Ukraine, the war Iran, these incidents would have effected us wether in the EU or not,
please show workings that definitely show that it was caused by Brexit and not by the external influences

@Sausagenbacon, Brexit was evidently a monumental error - a significant act of national self harm, which has left our nation considerably poorer than we would have otherwise been. As indeed most economists warned that it would before the referendum.

I'm interested in understanding why you seem so eager to brush this monumental fuck-up under the carpet. As a nation, do you not think it is important for us to collectively reflect on what went so horribly wrong and how so many of the electorate were manipulated into voting against their own interests? Would it not make more sense for the nation to learn from its mistakes so that the electorate can make better decisions in the future?

Why are you so eager to move on and stop talking about it?

It could do though. The fact that government doesn't want to, isn't Brexit's fault.

You are making the EU sound like it was just about trade and freedom of movement. The UK voted Leave because it spawned into a monothlic entity. We had opted out on areas such as Schagen, joining the euro, bits if the Lisbon Treaty pre Brexit. It was only ever going in onr direction towards the end.

I dont understand youre point about defending ourselves against the entire world military wise.... we are part of NATO, this is nothing to do with the EU. It would be us and another 31 countries. We wouldnt be alone, defenseless

All you have to do is scroll back to see the level of abuse.
And deflection isn't pointing out that the issue is pretty much a dead duck now.

Where did I call people racist or thick?

You tried to deflect from the harms

That's defending it.

I have not called Brexit voters anything rude, just that Brexit is a mistake and Farage is a charlatan.

The UK may never go back into the EU, but a closer relationship in order to mitigate the harms would be great.

I want it to be widely acknowledged that Brexit has been harmful, for people to see that Farage is a charlatan, and to not consider voting for his hateful party.
And calling people stupid/racist is not the right way to get them to change their vote. I'd have thought that people would have worked that out by now.

What do you want from defending Brexit and trying to deflect from discussions of the harms it's caused.
Have i defended Brexit? Show me the post where i've done that.
And most of the 'discussion' is posters flailing around being as rude as they can about brexit voters. It's not exactly high- level is it?
It must be very hard for some posters to be up against the fact that the UK will never return to the EU, but it's frankly pathetic that they have to resort to insults.

Anyone who ever trusted Boris the omnish*gger about anything is an idiot tbh

I want it to be widely acknowledged that Brexit has been harmful, for people to see that Farage is a charlatan, and to not consider voting for his hateful party.

What do you want from defending Brexit and trying to deflect from discussions of the harms it's caused.

I think the trouble was that the idea of Brexit was so woolly that people voted for whatever hoped it would be. Reducing migration, having all the non-whites kicked out, no more EU migrants taking our jobs, England being the ruler of the Empire again, making our own laws instead of being beholden to the EU etc etc.

It was like saying to a group of friends ‘let’s go on holiday together’ when I expect 2 weeks on a beach, Susan wants 3 days looking round museums, Anne wants a week skiing and Laura wants a month touring Scotland in a camper van.

The fact that Brexit has been a shitshow that didn’t have any benefits is no surprise and all the guilty parties just blame the fact that it wasn’t the Brexit that they said it would be, so not their fault.

But we both know that Brexit has been a disaster for the UK economically and politically
And?
What do you want from this? You know, something actually acheivable?

Has everyone forgotten about the biggest arsehole of all Dominic Cummings ?

Nice attempt at deflection

But we both know that Brexit has been a disaster for the UK economically and politically

Well Brexit wouldn’t have happened if Blair hadn’t opened the doors to east Europeans
the 200-300,000 a year started then

I think the problem here is the concept of 'undoing the damage' or 'reversing brexshit'.

Regaining the terms we had previously is pretty much an impossibility. Reversing the economic damage is definitely an impossibility.

I was very firmly a remainer, but we should really be concentrating our efforts on what we should do now rather than what we should have done then. We did it. It's done. We can't undo it. We just need to get on with dealing with the fallout and not making similar mistakes again.

It’s funny, I thought it was the majority of the nation, who voted to leave the EU, not one man who has never been in a government position to vote to give the nation the vote or implement the vote properly,