AIBU to consider cutting contact with my difficult elderly mother?

I also meant to mention that Jay Reid and Patrick Teahan on YouTube have some great material that you may find helpful.
Check them out.

I'd been wondering how you were going Tiggermad.

You don't have to 'do' anything. Of course you can accept her apology if you wish but you don't have to make up (whatever that involves).

Please remember: apologies are easy for people to make because they are only words. Quite often, apologies are used to get another person back into line. If they don't lead to changed behaviour they are actually pretty worthless in the great scheme of things. You can simply say Thank You. That is an example of tit for tat. She says sorry - you say thanks. Don't give any more than you're getting. Don't agonise over it. You don't have to 'make up.' Her reaction to you not over compensating and throwing herself at your feet with gratitude will tell you all you need to know.

Also, the cycle will start again only if you attend the 'party' that she's inviting you to. So have a good think about what you're prepared to do. If you have your strategies and scripts written down somewhere - in your Notes on your phone say - then you can refer to them as necessary. And stick to them. She will throw every trick in the book at you to get you back 'under control.' But you can hold your ground.

I also don't necessarily think as another PP has suggested that you now need to jump in and outline all the errors of her ways. While it is very tempting, that way often lies danger. It uses up a lot of your emotional energy, gives her ammunition to challenge, argue with and and use against you and then she gets to play the victim. Likely she will also recruit your sister or her friends as flying monkeys. I've seen this process play out many times. It's just not worth it. She doesn't want to hear it. You may as well shout into the wind.

Blocking her for periods, as you have done, is very sensible for your mental health. You have a lot of power in this situation. Don't assume you're at a complete loss here. You're an adult now. Ask yourself: what is the worst she could do: tell her friends or your sister that you're a terrible daughter? They're going to think whatever they're going to think. You don't have to react to anything they throw at you.

Guilt is operating here for you very strongly. It's expected that you will feel that guilt - because trust me, you've been strongly trained to by your mother and her allies - but you can also just sit with this discomfort and say to yourself 'that's my childhood training kicking in' and then you can decide to simply not act upon it. You certainly don't have to 'make up' because she's made you feel guilty for not complying with her dictates. Feelings of guilt are 'normal' in dysfunctional families but it doesn't mean they're actually normal in the true sense of the word.

Try not to let her behaviours, no matter how conciliatory they seem on the surface, change your plans going forward. You've actually got this. You have power. She can't ground you anymore.

You DO know what to do - it's just very uncomfortable. That means it's probably right. Remember to stick to your values of having a peaceful life and that will guide you.

Don't be surprised if you holding your line now brings extreme extinction burst behaviours from her: in my own family I've experienced tears, rage from enablers, accusations from relatives and hospitalisations of mother due to 'illness' I have allegedly caused by not falling into line with the matriarchal cult. It can get pretty intense so look after yourself and please keep posting.

I would accept her apology, via text and make your boundaries clear. Tell her if she does it again you will never contact her again.

she can be blocked by you and DH. If something in the home goes wrong she’ll hve to sort it, Christmas will have to be spent with her friends. Make clear it will be final and stick with it!

@DotTheBorderCollie's advice is brilliant. This is how I coped with my dad. As soon as he was mean, I cut the visit or phone call short. I just said, 'Oh, got to go!' and left.

I ensured I was very helpful practically, as that is a moral standard I wanted to be able to respect in myself. So I helped with hospital visits, cooked food if ill, arranged for a cleaner, arranged for carers etc all with grey rock politeness. But I refused to play the emotional manipulation dance and there was nothing he could do about it.

They dont change. God its draining. Sympathies. Think my sister feels same. Oh but Im your mother attitudes)

OP, challenge her with facts stated unemotionally.

Explain how rude she is, what she expects and that these two are a mismatch. You don't have to be a doormat. If she wants you in her life, she needs to be respectful and kind.

Don't worry too much about your sister blowing hot and cold with you. You cannot control how siblings react to manipulative parents. It's too complicated. Just create similar boundaries with her. If she is friendly and reasonable, return the warmth. If not, take a step back.

DotTheBorderCollie - I could have written your post but you've put it all so much better than I ever could.
I also recognise the "extinction burst", though I never knew it had a name.

Great compassionate and practical advice there from @DotTheBorderCollie . Hope you can take it on board ans start getting your life and headspace back.

Elderly flying monkeys. I love that. My mother had them. One was unpleasant at the funeral luckily her comment was made to DH so I didn't get to hear it.

I assume because she is horrible, cruel and manipulative, will ruin the occasion and no-one enjoys her company.

out of interest why isnt she invited to the family meals?

So she tells lies like this that you can positively PROVE to be lies - but you're believing her stories about the things her 'friends' say and do with their children?

She is full of it.

I can very much relate. I have an elderly very difficult mother too and have always been the family scapegoat. I learned very early on that I could never please her and that my other siblings and even the children of her friends would always be 'better children' than me.

It can have a huge impact on one's mental health. And there's a huge conflict with that and still being expected to love and get along with our mothers no matter what.

Anyway, my hard earned knowledge, for what it's worth, is as follows:

The main thing that helps me is having very solid boundaries and 'rules'. I'm very tit for tat these days and treat her behaviour as if I'm dealing with a recalcitrant child. Consequences for her poor behaviour are also immediate.

My rules are as follows:

1. I never answer the phone to her. I let it go through to voice mail. I call when I'm ready. If she huffs and doesn't leave a message, I don't call her.
2. I visit her once a fortnight and I leave the instant she starts being unreasonable. I never stay longer than an hour in any case.
3. Whenever anyone (usually elderly flying monkeys) see me in the street and start saying 'your poor old Mum' to me I say, 'thanks for your concern, I certainly try to do my best, and please bear in mind that it's possible that you don't have the whole story.' They actually usually do get it. And if they don't, too bad. Then I change the subject or leave the conversation.
4. I default to never believing anything she says and verifying everything. (She hates that but she does lie or massage the truth constantly so it's necessary.)
5. I never allow my self to be triangulated with other siblings. My line with my mother is, always, 'well, shall we just call them to see what they say about it then?' That shuts things down really fast.
6. When she cries and calls me names and accuses me of various evil deeds, I shrug and say calmly 'that's your opinion, not the facts as I recall them'. And I leave.
7. If she is rude to me, I extend the duration between visits.
8. I only ever stick to 'pleasant' topics on her interests, eg. tv shows, who's died (!), local news, history etc.
9. I keep her on an almost complete information diet regarding my husband and children, none of whom wish to visit her.
10. I am very 'grey rock' (coolly professional, boring) with her and her few friends.

I could go on but you get the picture.

I have also been NC in the past and honestly that was bliss. However, I stepped back up to LC because my father (the enabler) died and she was struggling quite a bit. I've just outlined the above to indicate that LC is manageable but only if you have very strict guidelines and scripts for yourself. This saves you having to get stressed or think in your feet. It's still stressful though.

As somewhat of an aside, you would already know that longstanding patterns of dysfunctional behaviour are generally referred to as having personality disorders. Your mother is probably in the cluster B category if she's always been like this (I'm a psychologist and obviously can't diagnose someone I've never met but the signs are all there based on what you're saying.)

My point is: she is highly unlikely to ever change. It's you who has to change your strategies. And them stick to them come hell or high water. But be aware that when she sees you mean business she will ramp it right up. This means what you're doing is working and you do not abandon your strategies. In other words it gets worse before it gets better. She will try all sorts of tactics to get you to stop 'malfunctioning'. This is called an extinction burst. Do not reward any poor behaviour. If she behaves then be civil. But don't ever think she's changed.

Another point I'd add is that she appears to be able to 'behave' when it suits her and can probably also 'perform well' in public, which tells me that it's important for her to be seen as a 'good' person. She then also 'has to' smear and relatively downgrade you and make you 'the cause of all the problems' otherwise she'd be forced to take some accountability for her own actions. And this is very unlikely to happen. She is also quite selective in her targets. This is why I think her behaviours indicate a personality disorder rather than just early dementia. This is also why she frames you as being the one with MH problems. (Similarly, my mother also decided I have mental illness, that there was 'something wrong with' me mainly because I refused to go along with her manipulations.)

I could say so much more but won't make this any longer. I want to say I am so concerned at how beaten down you seem. I'm relieved and heartened that you have great support in your husband and son but I believe therapy would also really help you. In the meantime, can I suggest the following resources for you?

'But it's your family' by Dr Sherrie Campbell

and the Out of the Fog website.

Best of luck. This isn't easy. It can be one of the most difficult relationships in life. And people with happy families just don't get it, which can leave you feeling so alone. But you're not alone. Keep posting.

What are you actually getting out of this relationship except a lot of stress? Nothing. Be kinder to yourself. Sounds as if you owe her nothing. You’ve giving enough.

Set really strong boundaries if you want to keep contact but use the stock phrases suggested by others and block contact whenever she’s horrible. Block her number on your children’s phones. Don’t answer the door or get your husband to answer and tell him to say she’s not welcome as she’s been horrible. Until she apologises she’s not welcome.

Message your sister and explain what’s going on and tell her not to get involved. Otherwise block her too.

Best option is to block both mother and sister entirely. Blocks for a few months and see how it is.

Guess there’s only the risk of losing an inheritance but maybe evidence all that you’ve done and appeal that?

This is excellent advice.

I just want to mention that I had an abusive mother. I cut contact with her when I was in my 30s, and I have never regretted it. I was a massive relief.

She died 20 years ago and for the last 11 years of her life I was NC. She did not deserve a relationship with me and I did not deserve to be her emotional punchbag.

You need to come up with a strategy and set responses to her behaviours, then stick to them.

• Never take her anywhere, so you can always leave the moment she gets nasty - meet her at places or visit her at her home.
• Come up with a standard 'I have to go now, bye' type response to use when on the phone or in person, she starts getting shitty. Keep it light but use it and hang up, or use it and immediately walk away.
• Don't waste time explaining yourself or expecting any recognition of her horrible behaviour.
• Ignore text messages if you are busy or if they are unpleasant. Just delete them.

You have to stick to this, the response to her behaviour has to be the same every time and happen within a few seconds of her behaviour or she will not make the connection.

Don't mistake this training tactic to CHANGE her ... it may change her behaviour to you in specific contexts, but it will not teach her she was wrong to be like this or make her a nicer person.

Make sure that everyone relevant (ie you DH) knows this is the plan and is on board with it.

Your DH is a star and has your back as have you DC block block block and tell her to either behave or bugger off to your Dsis who doesn't have to put up with the nasty cow.
Big hugs to you xx

I had a mum like this. She was vitriolic towards me… the oldest daughter. Everyone else dropped back, leaving me as the ‘doer’. What saved me was my husband who could jolly her along and make her laugh. He acted like a foil, taking the pressure off me and making sure fall outs were minimal and if mum and I did fall out he would be the person to go around, break the ice and smooth things over. We put a lot of her behaviour down to dementia but she was always aggressive with me so difficult to tell. She died at 92 with me (and others) at her bedside. I felt good about the fact we were on good terms at the time but admit to some relief. That’s awful I know.
My advice to you is what my husband told me… humour her, limit your visits/outings and treat yourself to something nice afterwards… a long bath with wine etc.
Sorry it is all down to you but if you can say to yourself when she is gone ‘I tried my best’ what else can you do 💐

Most people know that when strangers start badmouthing family members to them, there is something not quite right about the person doing the badmouthing.
She's using your fear of looking like a bad daughter in the eyes of others to control you.
Really who cares what your neighbour thinks of you? Or her friends, what are they to you? You are a neglectful daughter, according to a nasty woman and some people you are vaguely connected to, if at all - so what? You know it's not a fair assessment of you. In fact you've let her bully you into a breakdown. Enough. Let your husband protect you. He's probably had enough of her aswell. Only you can drop the rope here.

Would you be able to go away with your family this Christmas? We did it a few years ago and it was lovely to have a peaceful family Christmas without the drama and sulking.

Apart from that I would set boundaries. Mute messages and check every other day. Meet up every other week in a public place. Who cares if she badmouths you to other people. Anyone that knows you and/or her will know what is going on. Let the words run off your back into the gutter- easier said than done!