To think long term affairs are like a form of fraud really

The marriage certificate is a legal document,so maybe it should be a crime to cheat while married.That would make some people think twice about the consequences! Make them pay all the legal fees and lose the children to the other parent,plus have to leave the marital home without any financial gain.I think a lot of women would not agree with this because as many women cheat ad men.

My father is a disgusting individual who had multiple affairs, the last one coming to light when my mum was in her seventies. She’d forgiven earlier indiscretions (wrongly) but this affair was decades long, and it’s destroyed her. Divorce and loss of half of his assets was the legal remedy but the after effects on everyone’s mental and physical health could never be compensated.

I know the French thing's a stereotype and nothing's that simple. But, well, I've lived in France and, ime, there is a socially validated option that we don't have in the UK. And it has boundaries that everyone knows, designed to rock boats as little as possible.

It's basically don't ask, don't tell, don't be a twat. You don't get suspicious when your husband/wife goes out to book club or the gym, wearing a nice outfit and perfume, and comes home late. You make an obvious and educated guess. You say nothing about it. You don't see your 'little friend' so often that it prevents either them or you engaging in your marriage. You don't miss family events for them. You don't mope about the pool on your family holiday, you keep extra-marital messaging to a decent minimum.

Not everyone could live like this. I could, actually. Unfortunately, both my husbands were outraged by the very idea, so I bought into the exclusive monogamy they said they wanted. Both cheated prolifically. All the bloody lies! The coercing friends to lie for them, the total life damage that causes. It's impossible to believe they weren't getting a kick out of deceiving me, letting me down, betraying me. Because I'd told them I could live with non-monogamy, just not with being disregarded. So they did both.

Incidentally, XH2 cheated on his current wife with me while they were engaged. He had absolutely no reason to - it must be part of his inbuilt drive to be a dishonest arsehole, proving some kind of point to no-one in particular.

The father of a former friend of mine actually had two families. He worked away a lot, so this enabled him to create the second family. Eventually, it all came to light and he left my former friend's DM.

My neighbour's now ex wife was having an affair with her friend's husband. She got caught out by her friend, so she confessed to her husband before he got told by her friend. Not only that, but she squandered the emergency cash fund that was in the house (husband was main breadwinner as she only had a part-time cleaning job), plus she spent her son's inheritance that was in an account where she was the joint account holder. It was quite a few thousand pounds. She refused to tell anyone what she did with the money, but looking at a few other things, personally I think it was gambling.

Husband kicked her out immediately and teenage DS has refused to have anything to do with her. She has lost her home, her husband, her son, her friend, plus quite a few other friends/family now refuse to have anything to do with her as they are disgusted by her behaviour.

As you say, it's the lies and deceit which really hurts.

How is it viewed in France please?

So sad 😔

This is the problem.

if you don’t want a monogamous relationship, then say so.

Maybe society needs to reduce the shame around wanting to leave a relationship. But I have been cheated on and had a young child with the person and one of the things I couldn’t get over is the fact that we made an agreement. We are exclusive to eachother. I was doing my part and not interacting with others, but turns out he had a whole double life.

If you don’t want to be with me, or if you want to explore outside. Tell me so that I can make a decision too. It is such a selfish act. It’s the secrecy that’s awful, and the lack of choice you have as the victim of it.

It is awful! You don’t know what kind of infections you could spread, because maybe he was more ontop of his sexual health, but I was relaxed about it. There have been cases where partners spread things such as HIV.

Thats on the extreme end. But it is awful. I think I’m pretty intelligent, I’m lucky I’ve always had my own money and assets - but I felt so decieved and stupid. It is actually worse than being scammed! Because the person acts so loving to you whilst sneaking off with someone else.

It’s the ultimate mind f*ck.

Yes I’m a little bit bitter. But infidelity is awful and life destroying. And family destroying when kids are involved.

edited for a major typo

Wedding vows might not mean much to you, but they are supposed to mean something? If you don't want to agree to being monogamous, then don't? You're absolutely right - both men AND women have the freedoms to do that, yet for some reason, people still cheat when they have made a promise not to.

I just don't get this attitude at all. Do what you want, I don't really care - unless you've made a promise to explicitly not do something. Then don't, without giving me the opportunity to say actually, this is important to me, and if you aren't going to uphold your end of our vows, then we are going to break up?

There actually is a country which allows you to sue for damages when cheated on if married - Japan. So there is a country with a precedent for it...

Good things did happen but being lied to is destroying. All mine had to do was tell me the truth and leave. He didn’t have the moral courage to do that.

@Wordsworsehi there @CurdinHenry

This js my biggest issue. If I consent to sex in a monogamous relationship only and my partner sleeps with multiple people, the sex we had is definitely nonconsensual.

Then don’t agree to it.

@PeoniesAreMyFavouriteFlowers patronising much?

My point is/was folk can say whatever they choose or is handed to them in their wedding vows but it’s not contractual in anyway and I don’t believe it’s in human nature to stay with one person for life, but has been accepted/the norm because of women’s place in the world until the freedoms of the 20th century set them loose.

I know someone’s who was cheated on by their husband, and then later on in an unrelated incident was raped.
She said she was “raped” every day of her marriage as the sex was through deceipt, so the actual attack didn’t phase her half as much.

Whatever you believe in is irrelevant. It’s about what people - partnerships - agree to. And what is subsequently betrayed.

That is what is being discussed. It’s not hard.

Personally I don’t believe humans are designed for long term life partnerships. It only worked in the past because women stayed at home raising the bairns whilst the men killed the bison, worked down t’pit whatever.

We grow, change, move on, at different rates. I can count on one finger the number of my friends who are still happily married/in a long term relationship (60s).

In fact I only commented to a friend the other day what an anomaly it is (and shoots my theory up the arse rather) that some birds mate for life.

I know a guy who had an affair for a similar period of time. 3 children. One developed an eating disorder. Wife had a nervous breakdown.

I agree with you OP. I wish as a people the British were better at confronting things head on, rather than taking the "none of my business" stance.

I have no respect for people that have affairs. None. And it colours my view of everything in their life - they made vows that are supposed to mean something - if the person that is supposed to mean the most to them can't even trust them, then how can I?

Then remove the until death do us do part bit from your wedding vows.

It’s all about what you agree to. What you commit to. Those are the things to which you are held responsible. The standards to which you have agreed.

Not some “Oh we are all free and blame should not happen in relationships ” midlife crisis cobblers.

You agree to e.g. monogamy. It’s totally clear and mutually agreed often in public. You fail the agreement by cheating. Lying etc. What happens? Nothing really apart from immense pain, mental trauma and financial misery for your spouse and children.

Some posters think that being cheated on isn’t that important. That the pain you cause doesn’t matter because it’s your freedom and it’s twoo wuv. 🥰 🙄

Others think that because it’s the norm and even royals do it (like they’re a bastion of morality or something 🙄) therefore nothing can be done.
Something you both agree upon or even swear to in public becomes meaningless. No wonder people despair. Promises, fidelity and loyalty mean nothing even though one might have based their lives and their children’s lives upon these.

It happens all the time though. Look at the King.

I know a man who had serial affairs. Casual and long term. Basically got married too young (19) this was back in 1965. Wife found out about affairs, kept forgiving him and they’d move house to get away from the ‘floosie’ (wife’s term). He never stopped. Couldn’t help himself basically. Eventually met a woman who really knocked him for six and left his wife, but not until wife found out and chucked him out. Doubt he would have left if she hadn’t found out. I think the deceit becomes addictive. And hilariously the other woman didn’t really want him to leave as a part time relationship with a frisson of danger suited her perfectly. Anyway leave he did. Moved in with other woman, had a child together and eventually married. But his children from his first marriage never spoke to him again and he made no effort to find them. Relationship with new wife floundered on the rocks of age difference and indifference and he died a lonely old man.

🤷‍♀️

I think part of the problem (a relatively minor part, but still...) is general misunderstanding of what the legal part of a wedding actually is.
There is so much talk about writing your own vows and what you vow etc when thinking about planning a wedding, that it is very easy to assume that the things you promise in front of the audience are the things that you are signing up to contractually - but actually, the legal contract created by signing the register is very narrow and doesn't cover anything like that.
So cheating very definitely feels as if it is breach of a legal contract because of all the fuss around swearing and signing a legal contract in front of everyone, but most of the ceremony is purely decorative.

You got there before i did.

Thats not the only deal they sign up for though is it