To run a cub scout camp

I have also never had scouting trousers including as a leader. I know some leaders did for parades.

For cubs the mandatory stuff was a jumper, a scarf and a polo shirt if you wanted to take the jumper off.

Trousers? Why insist on that? Isn't it just asking psrents to spend more money?
I have never had trousers nor my children. I thought they were considered optional in UK.

@Scoutleader01809 I’ve been a guide, brownie and ranger leader for a long time- my DD took over from me, she’s having a break from MN atm, but this is what she’s just said:
“Poor bloke.
Have you replied to this thread?
I’m not a registered poster on Mumsnet anymore but if you wanted to share my thoughts as a Guide leader with nearly 30 years experience and 22 years running camps (over 200 nights away) with ages 7-19….

• 1 night indoors for Squirrels/Rainbows
• 2-3 nights indoors or fixed camp for younger Brownies/Cubs
• up to 7 nights for Guides/Scouts but the 10-12 year olds are often unsure of anything over 3-4 nights, though if you can persuade them to try it once, they tend to have a blast and come back next time
• no limits for Rangers/Explorers (I did 12 nights in Sweden with Rangers, best trip ever).

Parents are definitely more protective now than before COVID and smartphones have changed everything. Make it very clear that anyone under Ranger/Explorer age is not allowed to take their phone, and even they are expected to use it discreetly in a limited way. No charging facilities are provided. They can phone home if they want, using a leader phone, and we send one update per day with a photo of happy kids to parents. Nobody has ever asked for more! I’ve always thought that we need to let the girls keep something to tell the parents about when they get home!
When we tell parents about the phone rule, they are almost without exception pleased that phones are banned!

We have an overflowing Guide group and a larger than average Ranger group.
We get about 95% attendance at our winter indoor residential which is two nights and tends to cost about £60. Summer camps vary from 4 night basic camps to 7 night jamborees. This year we are going to a large scale international camp, and charging them £355 per guide for 6 nights of full on activity. I have worked hard to obtain grants to ensure that everyone who wanted to go can (fully covering the cost for 2 girls, including money for kit, and subsidising several others). Attendance varies - this year we have 21 attending from a possible 34.
This camp is in the second week of the summer holidays and there are girls who wanted to come but can’t as they will be away with their families, and a couple who said it’s too long to be away.

We live in an averagely well off area - parents tend to be working ’normal’ jobs, nobody is super well off, but the cost is not the biggest issue for them. I’ve had plenty of comments about how it’s good value. Prices have gone up in recent years though - the days of budgeting £5 per person per night for food are long gone.

We are very lucky in that we have plenty of Leaders to run these camps (myself as the licence holder plus 4 other qualified leaders and 2 18+ young leaders) and we don’t need to rely on parent helpers. In fact I don’t like taking parents, because they invariably focus on their own child rather than the group and the child can be clingy and reliant on the parent.

Also, I refuse to offer camps of less than 3 nights because the pitching and striking of camp is such hard work, by the time everything’s set up it’s time to take it all down again if you’re only staying 2 nights. You need a breather in between!”

I hope this helps!

She also says- are you clear about how many nights, are parents seeing “week” and thinking 7 nights? Also, how much notice do you give parents- are you allowing enough time for them to plan their annual leave and save up?

And finally, about cost- break it down for parents, she says this:

“And so may people saying too expensive - I’d ask how they think groups could get the costs any lower?
£10 per day for food and consumables
£9 a day campsite
Plus £25 for two onsite activities (maybe archery in the morning, abseiling in the afternoon?)
A bit towards the cost of maintaining kit
All adds up”

I would second everything she says, I hope it helps you.
Dont give up! Scouting and Guiding are great for kids- our young people can get so much from it! Good luck!

Leader burnout is a real issue, for sure. I nearly walked away last year because I'd ended up taking on too much and then buckled under the weight.

Groups my daughter was a young leader in and I would go in to help with badges was exactly like this. Not how I remember the groups. 3 leaders and 8 parent helpers, lots of really good quality activities (affluent area) like model planes, pony visits, circus visits and all the kids want to do is run around and smack each other. On the night they ran scouts has got talent there was uproar that there was a winner picked - at least half a dozen sets of parents went on the group chat and were livid their kid was upset they hadn't won! Some ten year old children were genuinely hysterical about it. When I did a badge I did a simple sheet that literally needed 5 pictures circling and most refused to do it, they still got the badge though (vastly different to published criteria). I am glad my kids aged out so it isn't my problem anymore. 2 years on and all leaders have left.

The parents of these kids have a lot to answer for.

My children both did unframed groups from the moment they could to the moment they aged out. Not many people did go on the camps ever, was never about the money. People these days seem to have their whole personality wrapped up in their kids. I loved the 4 night camps, would blitz the kids rooms! It isn't you. We took the uniformed groups really seriously, kids were young leaders etc. Basically not everyone does as much as you and I might do.

My eldest is in cubs, he goes on all the camps but they are only ever 2 nights and he is exhausted afterwards. Its mainly because they're on the go constantly doing activities, running around with thier friends then up around the fire till 10pm. Stick to weekends.

It’s too long and too expensive (girlguide leader)
We’ve found since Covid parents and children more reluctant to have overnight trips.
They won’t have even been on a school residential at that age.
We find for brownies age going locally and 2 nights maximum is popular and signed up to. Then build up as get older. Weekends trips are still popular at Guide age though, everyone is busy and it keeps costs down.
It’s a big deal sending your child away and parents need to have utmost confidence in you. I get that as a mum.
Some is just sign of times and you can’t please everyone. Yes to some parents telling children constantly they’ll miss them/the pets are missing them. Things like sharing photos is a double edged sword - why isn’t Katie there (she was she just ducked behind friend) Marie looks tired etc.

Both my kids have done Beavers/cubs/scouts and my daughter also went to rainbows and is now in brownies. So lots of experience of camps. Most have been 1 - 2 nights and my daughter (8) who is otherwise very confident, outgoing, loves all the activites, lots of friends in both her cubs and brownies group, etc. still doesn't like to go for longer than 1 night. I don't think that's strange in children of that age and I definitely don't think it's a signal of future problems with independence as an adult.

My son is 10, recently went up to scouts and will go on a 4 night camp this summer. I think we'll all feel like that's a very long time for him to be away, he will struggle with how tired he is after the first couple of nights although I'm sure he'll have a great time. It did also mean we had to book our family holiday at an earlier point than we wanted to which cost more and fits less well with other summer/childcare plans - I wouldn't underestimate how much a week's camp can mess up summer planning which is not easy for working parents

School residentials a our school are 1 night in yr4, 2 nights in yr5 and 3 nights in yr6.

Would suggest a few weekend camps instead of a full week.

I went through scouts myself, was a young leader for a while, my kids go now and I’m generally very supportive of the movement.

I would probably not send my kids on a week long Cub camp. The activities sound lovely, and perfect for scouting, and I’m 100 percent in agreement with getting them off screens. But, in my opinion, a whole week is too long without parents for an 8 or 9 year old.

Our cub camps are capped at 2 nights, which works really well, and then scouts go for a week. Even when I was a scout (35 years ago!) cubs wouldn’t have been taken away for a week.

My eldest is 11 and going for a week for the first time this year, which feels right. My youngest is 9 and has some additional needs so hasn’t camped without me there before, he’ll do a couple of nights by himself from next year.

Yes I would do this. My DS is a Beaver so no overnights yet but I know the Cubs and Scouts just have a couple of weekends away- one at Christmas, one in the summer. A week is probably too long for the 8 year olds, the 10 year olds are fine.

OP, I think a week long at scouts level is fine, but not cubs. Our local scouts do a week long camp at start of school holidays. It's capped at 20, and apparently it's fully booked within a day of release in September for the following July. They do 2 years UK then 1 year abroad and so on, so every child gets at least 1 abroad option. The demand for long camps is definitely there, just maybe not at cub level.

A week as in 4 nights (eg Mon-Fri) or 6 (eg Mon-Sun)? Either of those would be quite a long time for 8-10 year olds.

Depending on what actual days you’re going, you have to factor in that parents need to be available to drop off and collect their kids on whatever day you start and end. Could be an issue on a working day.

A lot of people have to book their annual leave quite far in advance to cover school holidays. I had to book mine back in March. So if people have already done that, they’re unlikely to send their kid to camp that week.

£200 is also super expensive for a camping trip.

My son has been in beavers and is in cubs now. A week is too long at that age. He is doing 2 nights this weekend and it’s £30. He does this 4 or 5 times a year (mix of camping in tents and sleeping in the scout hut). My husband is volunteering to help at the camp but no way could we manage a whole weeks help. I think shorter camps is the way to go.

I’m a Cub Scout leader and I’d say it’s the length. We do two weekend camps a year. 2 nights. Even then the younger ones sometimes start by doing one night or coming for the day time only. A week camping away from your family is a long time at 8 years old!

My point is that whilst it acts as childcare, that's not it's primary purpose of camps run by volunteers. A commercial profit making camp, like PGL is different. In the same way as schools primary purpose is not go be childcare,but education. And therefore it's is built around activities and times which we feel benefit the children and which work for the volunteers, not for parental convenience.

Just a quick thought on this - yes, you don’t do this for Christmas cards. However, having some appreciation from parents is wonderful. As a Brownie leader I usually get only one or two Christmas cards, but it honestly makes me feel valued and appreciated as a volunteer. I wish more parents did this!

A note on photos - why not arrange for phones to go into a box during meetings? And have a strict rule about them?

And with uniform - worth reiterating this to parents. They’re an equaliser and worth it for many reasons. Perhaps have a second hand sale for cheaper prices?

Hello - Brownie leader here.

I would stick with a weekend camp - or even a day “camp” to start with. A day camp can be particularly good for younger children - a camp fire, putting up tents, a nature activity. And… much less paperwork for you!

Lots of parents are nervous about their children going on trips away (we found this particularly post-Covid) but if you build up to a stay away, children can get excited and parents’ fears are allayed.

At our last residential trip, we did not have a WhatsApp group we updated. Some parents said that they preferred this, as they could just trust the child was happy and weren’t waiting for an update. They did, of course, have contact numbers so could have checked it if necessary.

As others have said the problem is it’s too long. I have two DC who have been through cubs/scouts etc. Cubs was only ever 1-2 night camps. In scouts they progressed to a week. I would definitely not have sent them for a week at age 8, and I am very relaxed about this sort of thing. Just do a weekend in term time and you will get plenty of sign ups. I don’t think the price is at all unreasonable for a week’s camp but clearly a weekend will be much more affordable as well.

You have some very unhealthy thoughts here.

You don't do it for the Christmas cards. The validation should be seeing the kids grow. That's it. A simple thank you rather than a card that may be perceived as a waste of environmental resources is sufficient.

'Scouting values you grew up with'. Woah steady now. DH has been involved with scouting a long time now. Scouting values haven't changed. The pressures on parents very much have. Both in terms of time and money. Scouting is competing with a whole host of other activities being available not just screens. It's slightly unfashionable. You have to offer more engaging activities to compete. That's not scouting values diminishing. Indeed if you dial up the scouting and make it more adventurous you tend to get more engagement. If kids turn up with phones, send them home! Or do something WITH the phones to engage the kids. Make it crystal clear it's not ok to not engage unless it's an active part of the activity and have a bit of discipline. If you end up losing the kids who aren't interested, the rest of the kids will have a better time and enjoy it more and be more engaged. Poor discipline with the group over phones will of course affect the rest of the group. That one kid who doesn't want to be there, will affect all the others. Be strict over it.

If you are offering a good program, you will get the enthusiasm you seek. Frankly I'd argue that if they are turning up with phones they are bored. We do not have an issue with phones at our any of our sections. The kids are there for the knives and fire and adventure.

You sound burnt out and jaded as a leader tbh. A lot of it sounds like a you problem and being out of step with parents/kids.

And no phones. I prefer it when the kids can’t take phones as they need a tech break. A few photos and daily updates is great.

My son went for 7 days 12yrs ago on cub camp. He loved it. It did feel a bit long, but he loved it, and i’m glad he got to experience it. I think some parents are scared of letting their children have these experiences. Personally, I think it did my son a lot of good.

£200 is your problem. As is 5 days for a cub camp. Cub camps are 2 nights. 5 nights is really a bit much for a lot of parents for 8 to 10 year olds. Rightly or wrongly. I don't think we'd consider doing a camp that long for that age group - scouts yes but not cubs.

It doesn't really surprise me tbh that you aren't getting a big uptake. Especially if it's during the summer holidays.

We only do a scout camp of that length every four years. The idea is that the kids do it once during their time at that level. It's announced the previous year to give plenty of prior notice.

Otherwise it's a standard weekend camp.

Bare in mind if you have more than one kid it's not just £60/£200 for a camp. It's double that - even if it's not the same year - if you are being fair to them all. And there's a bunch of other camps - many will also have school residential to go on too.

I think you are not in touch with parents to a degree here.

Both of my DC begged not to go to the 5 day camps. They have been in the past and enjoyed the daytime activities but one of them in particular wanted some alone downtime I suspect. The kind of privacy you can only really get at home. I’d probably be the same TBH.
We really tried to convince them to go. Unfortunately I do feel the pull of modern day to day life also has an impact - my DC are scout age now and are increasingly rejecting organised fun in favour of screens and a casual kick about at the park or going out on bikes locally.

Some scout things seem such a world away from modern life - there are very few church or community based events now as I know it was a struggle to get the children to participate. I remember spending hours in churches with Brownies and Guides which I just couldn’t imagine people being on board with now. My DS has to be forced by me each week to wear all aspects of his uniform, I think there are other children who turn up without their uniform. When I went to brownies I loved getting badges but my DC weren’t bothered in cubs and certainly not scouts. I know the latter points aren’t what you were asking about but I thought I’d give my DC perspective on going to scouts. My DS likes the activities but perhaps doesn’t identify himself as a scout in the way that might have happened more in years gone by. I guess you could blame my parenting for not raising them in such a way that they would like the longer camps. As a family we are probably quite individualistic which probably reflects modern society as well as our preferences for spending longer periods of time in group settings.