To run a cub scout camp

All 3 of mine have been through from Beavers upwards, eldest did Explorers for a while, middle left after scouts, youngest has just aged out of Beavers to Cubs.

None of them did a week's camp, I think the longest was 3 nights, and around £50.

None of them ever needed anything other than a jumper and necker for the relevant phase. Youngest has a polo too because he hates wearing jumpers. As long as they have a necker on they're not too fussed about the rest for general meet ups.

Youngest just had a beaver camp, it was one night, and around £15, £20 maybe. I would be amazed if he, or any of his friends, had wanted to be away from home for longer.

I hear you - I'm looking at all the stuff waiting to be put away from last weekend's unit camp! And I totally agree, a weekend is too short, as soon as they're in the swing and learning something then it's time to go home. And the volume of kit required 😭

My team is limited because we all work FT. That's why we only do weekends. But maybe that's what you need to do, build them up? Sleepover, 2 nights, 3 nights (using a BH or school hols)?

My brownie goes on every camp, all gave been max two nights and around £65

OP YANBU. My son is 25 and was part of Scouting from 6-16. He LOVED it especially the camps, particularly when he got to Explorers. I remember a fantastic weekend he had when he was 15 where they were volunteering for part of it and there was live music in the evenings.
I never had a problem with 5 day camps at that age but I only had him so cost wasn't so much of an issue and he loved being with the other boys.
I guess if you aren't getting the sign ups then you'll need to rethink.

However I just want to say a MASSIVE THANK YOU for doing what you do. My son as an adult has said how much he got out of Scouting and how if he has children he would encourage them to be part of it too. He has very fond memories.

My oldest was the same! Started Scouts and then I packed him off to Switzerland for 10 days. He loved it, and also went to Belgium, Poland, Sweden and Norway with Scouts and Explorers. They weren't hugely expensive trips either.

My sons (late teens - mid twenties) did week long summer camps from Cub age, as well as numerous weekend camps. I was forever packing them off somewhere. They loved it! I didn't miss them because I knew they'd be having a great time,and I'd be having a quiet time!

Now I'm a Scout Leader and we have trouble getting enough signed up for summer camp. We did a weekend camp recently and had far more interest. The Cub pack here only do a weekend - same campsite every year.

We have some good campsites locally, so weekend camps aren't a problem, but it's nice to go further afield sometimes, and you need longer than a weekend for that.

Maybe I'm a terrible parent but, DS 2 started Scouts at 10, did one weekend camp at Whitsun and I packed him off for a 7 day Jamboree that summer. He loved it and I didn't think anything of it. 🤷‍♀️😁

Guide Leader here - restart small and build up. We had a gap due to covid of girls having been away, so we did lots of short fun overnights, Ninja Warrior, Museum, Zoo, etc late drop off early pick up lots of fun. We have just done a 2 night camp and had a waiting list.
Parents/Children do seem to be less happy to spend long away from home with us for some reason.

I think lots of the troops are struggling for leaders. We've lost one of our Explorers, Scouts still doing ok. The most popular leader in DS 1s' Scouts was a twenty something very trendy young man.

Our Explorers leaders are only late 20s.

Time to move on to Explorers? Your version of cubs sounds brilliant though.
DS 2 did Scouts and is now in Explorers. Camps are absolutely no phones , mostly Friday evening to Sunday afternoon. A big summer holiday Kernow Jamboree last year. A week at an Adventure centre the year before.

When DS 1 was in Beavers we did buy uniform trousers and wear them regularly.

Now it's shirts and neckers, joggers for weekly meetings and smart school trousers and shoes for parades.
Parents went a bit crazy after Covid, very few clubs, of all descriptions, have got numbers back up to pre covid levels.

Weekend camps I get above 50% attendance on and from seeing this thread I may well just move to only doing those. It is a pain because by the time you put up camp you have lost best part of a day, then have one day to do some activites, then pack down and go home.

All weekend camps mine have ever been on start on a Friday night and end on a Sunday afternoon (except BH weekends, when they go into Monday).

But, actually, even if you do start on a Saturday morning (and I understand the point about them never sleeping on a Friday night as you haven't had the chance to wear them out), the activity for the morning is a very valid one of 'learning how to set up camp'. Learning how to set it out / pitch a tent / which way to pitch if the field is sloping / learning how to take it down and pack it away / getting older or more experienced cubs to teach the newbies / learning about different sorts of tens and the pros and cons and the foibles of different ones / putting up the marquee or camp kitchen / etc is all a really useful activity to be doing on a cub camp.

I don't like bunkhouses on principle, it's not camping, we have a good supply of camping equipment and we should use it but if we're going to do more weekend camps, maybe one of them should be in a bunkhouse. When I do a sleepover at the hut I get 80% attendance.

You've sort of answered your own dilemma there. Your current cohort prefer sleeping indoors.

In an ideal world, (and which of us has that?) I would alternate. Do a 'sleepover' in the hut or somewhere local.... do a bunkhouse type of camp where the "activities" are the main attraction..... do more of a back woods type camp where camping skills and cooking and nature are the focus.

I also feel like 10 years ago I could do more fun, adventurous activites, maybe this cohort is a blip but the needs of these kids is so high (I suppose that's part of why 5 days just isn't wanted anymore), if I don't do a 20 minute game at the start of the session involving running, they can't even do 5 minutes of listening to instructions, sometimes even then they still haven't processed anything I said.

In fairness, when I started running our cub pack in 1984, that would be the format for the evening. It is ALWAYS what I recommended when delivering training, long before covid. The dc have been at school all day. They come to evening activities for something that is completely different, not another lesson like a school lesson. Exercise and movement is key for most children, and always has been.

£200 is a lot - you can get a week of 9-5 multi-activity holiday club for a lot less than that.

With 3 meals, plus snacks / supper / drinks, and overnight care ?
Really ?
Tell me where.

It's dyb dyb dyb anyway 😉 (acronym for Do Your Best, of course!)

Our Cub camps are incredibly popular. Near 100% attendance for the last one. I think the problem is cost and the length. Kids have so many commitments and it only takes on commitment on any one day of the week to make it impossible for that child to attend.

Throw it open to neighbouring packs?

Thanks for doing all you do. It is very much appreciated.

(I was so tempted to say Dib, dib, dib, but that would have been childish and dated so I didn't.)

What age is cubs? 7-10 ish?
My oldest is 10, youngest is 7. We dont have issues with parents being risk averse. In our Rainbows (5-7) and Brownies (7-10) we consistently get high uptake on residentials, to the point we have to say ' places will be released at 7pm on X date, first 20 who have consent form and payment in only'. Within an hour all the places are gone.

Scout camp is first week of holidays fir us, booking opens September before following Julys camp, again, fully booked within a few hours of release.

Both scouts and guides in our village have huge wait lists, and our experience is parents are really embracing these opportunities for their children. They are recognising the dangers of screen addiction and helicopter parenting and trying to combat this

Go shorter to start off with

OP - think "youth-led". If your young people prefer bunkhouse camps, do it! It is still Scouting, they're still learning skills for life and having fun according to the Scout Values.

Example: I asked our older Scouts about their Expedition Challenge - did they want to do the traditional hike-camp-hike, or did they want to travel on public transport and explore somewhere? They universally chose the latter, so that's what we're doing.

Give the bunk house trips a try! It's not camping, but it doesn't have to be. It still has lots of the elements that make it an adventure for the kids - away from home, staying in dorms with your friends, doing new activities etc - just not the tent bits. I'm a Brownie leader and we don't camp, because we don't have the kit and frankly I don't like camping that much! We do at least two weekend residentials a year and get good signup rates, the girls who come say that pack holiday is one of their favourite bits of Brownies. So don't write it off just because it doesn't involve tents.

I agree with everyone else that 5 days is probably just too long for many kids that age, especially if they've not done shorter ones already. I do 2 nights with the Brownies and I'm knackered after that, I'm not sure I'd manage 5! From my own memory of Guides 30 years ago, we generally only did 3 nights (usually a bank holiday weekend) apart from going on bigger County/international camps which were longer. My son's Cubs seem to only do 2-3 nights at a time - and they stay indoors for their winter "camp" in December! He would not manage well for longer than that.

It's a shame that your other leaders object to shortening camp, but maybe you need to ask them frankly what they'd prefer: a "proper" 5 day camp which nobody goes on, or a weekend one which gets loads of kids trying their first camp?!

I was a Cub leader for 6 years - now Explorers. I found that after lockdown, very few parents wanted their kids to go away overnight, sharing sleeping accomodation etc. The cubs of today are the toddlers and preschoolers of lockdown. In my experience, they are quite a risk averse generation of parents and children a whole.

Also - £200 is a good price for a week of residential camp, but it is still a big chunk of cash. I know you say you’re in an affluent area, but you don’t truly know every family’s financial arrangements.

A week is a long time, especially when you are 8.

5 people is not a lot of adults for that period of time. I’m not going to look up POR for you, and I don’t know where you’re going or how many Cubs you plan to take, but that feels like quite a low ratio.

Safeguarding! Very much more a consideration for parents of young dc of both sexes than ever before. Is your safeguarding plan clear? For sleeping arrangements ? Land activities ? Watersports? How many first aiders? How will you identify allergies?

More people working flexibly = less need for holiday activities for kids.

You may think your camps are more fun than screens, but you’re pushing against a digital generation. Could you build in some of the digital maker type badges?

Not everyone wants to spend their free time rampaging around the outdoors for a week. Cook badge? Musician stuff?

Have the Cubs & their carers had any input to the programme for the week?

When is it? First week of school hols is unlikey to be popular - families either away at that first opportunity, or kids are shattered from the academic year and need to crash.

We don’t do more than 2 nights away at once until our young people get to Explorers/DoE stage.

Having said all that - 10 years ago, I’d have bitten your arm off for this.

My DS is a Cub and no I wouldn't do a week long summer camp. He is doing a 2 nighter this weekend but that is about as long as we would do. Not just us as parents, he also wouldn't want to do longer.
My DS also would have evening commitments even in summer so we would look for a day things rather than overnight in the summer. I would love there to be a day summer camp available for DS around Cubs. He would love that.

Not unheard in GG of but DBS is done.
I have seen parents take care of lunch and dinner on residentials but not running activities.

We ask for parent volunteers for meetings, day trips. But not for residentials. If we do have them they are paired with a qualified leader. Rainbow ratio outside the hut is 1 adult to 4/5 girls. So a parent plus a leader will have a group of 8-9 girls between us, they will never be left alone with the girls.

Fully agree with the independence thing, but most leaders will have their children go through guiding. We try as far as possible to not help on the trips where our children are, to give then independence, but that can be challenging for having enough leaders