What exactly is the strictness in English schools actually achieving?

I think most parents do want uniforms because it’s handy not to think about what the kids wear every day and there’s less pressure on parents and kids to get the ‘right’ brands for school etc.

No need for uniforms to be expensive/crested ones though and no need to insist on uncomfortable uniforms, eg blazers in hot weather, ties, particular shoes etc.
Our school allows black trainers and doesn’t have blazers at least. Their sports gear is expensive though. I don’t see why I should need to pay €25 for a crested PE tee shirt etc.

Did you know that on non-school uniform days, absence increases as there are some children who don't want to attend school in their own clothes?

That attitude some parents have to teachers on this thread is very sad and depressing.

Well its factual that lack of uniform doesn't negatively impact learning or behaviour as all the countries that don't have uniforms show so the rules are pointless, therefore stupid as they just add conflict. Doesn't matter if most British parents want them, that doesn't make them not stupid.

And yet the polling shows that parents want uniforms.

You have stated an opinion, not a fact.

All uniform rules are stupid for a start

Turn up to your lesson on time?
Do the work?
Behave in a way that means that other kids can learn?

Name a few stupid rules.

How have you extrapolated this?

Schools (like any place with lots of people) need rules. Adult workplaces have rules, events have rules, entire countries have rules (laws). Not sure what is so shocking about rules being enforced.

teachers dreading making a phone call clearly aren't busy

Well if the only rule was bringing a pen to school things would be very easy but we know it’s not - there’s a very long list of stupid rules.

Parents who continually call a school and take people away from their work obvously aren't.

I went to bed. This thread exploded. First, as I (and many of the teachers on this thread) have acknowledged some school implement rules that micromanage trivial aspects of school life (sock colour etc. etc. etc.) Many, many, schools do not. My DD’s school allows trainers, hair dye and make up. Detention and isolation are not jumped to for minor first offences. Staff are encouraged to talk to students quietly and respectfully (source - behaviour policy) and the vast majority do (source my DD). Teaching is focused. Academic debate is encouraged where appropriate. So is bad behaviour unheard of in this environment? No.
Let me give you an example of what teachers are dealing with. Early in Y7 DD was in history. The teacher looked out of the window and saw an older pupil roaming around. Teacher ‘Bob you need to be in your lesson. Where should you be?’ Bob ‘Fuck off.’ Bob runs off. Teacher is now on her walky talky reporting Bob to pastoral who will have to go and find him.
I don’t think petty rules will help, but poor disrespectful behaviour is not solely caused by petty rules. I respect the school and the teachers doing a great job in difficult circumstances. My DD is getting a good education despite a minority of defiant & disruptive students. The teachers keep at it despite facing abuse. They are human - yes sometimes they might be a bit snappy or sound pissed off. That is life.
Some of you sound naive to be frank.
Throwing around things like teachers ‘can’t be arsed’ etc. give me strength. There are plenty of secondary shortage subjects. Maybe you’d like to step up and show us all how it is done.

Teachers aren't the only people who are busy

I'm a teacher because I enjoy working with children.

Would you consider expecting a pupil to bring a pen to school and to follow reasonable instructions be 'controlling a child to the point of being a mini adult, obedient and neat'?

You really are insufferable.

As shown in these comments a LOT of adults here don't like children, or childish behaviour so they like the idea of controlling a child to the point of being a mini adult, obedient and neat

When our English teacher said "right guys, I've upheld my side of the bargain, it's time to lock in now" we listened - because we liked and respected him. Because he seemed to like and respect us. Did kids ever get sent out of the classroom, or shouted at? Of course they did.

It's bizarre. You claim that kids always behaved for this excellent teacher and then in the next breath admit that they didn't always behave for this excellent teacher and he had to implement sanctions. (As an aside, a teacher who shouted at the kids these days would be a 'shouty teacher' who 'terrifies the kids')

I mean, it's so untrue that it's not even funny. Some people have no idea.

Oh come on, don’t say that, I’m devastated - inconsolable, you’re such a meanie!🙄

The only model I have is my memory of the best teachers in my school when I was growing up. And when I say 'best', I mean the ones who enabled pupils to reach their potential (whatever it was), commanded good behaviour and were well liked. I do think respect is earned, and I agree that goes both ways. My school was an inner city comp, complete with its fair share of challenges. We didn't get behaviour points for not having a pen. Detentions - for anything - were few and far between. Bad behaviour did exist. But equally, teachers seemed to understand teens, got the balance right. Punishments were reserved for the worst offences - and offenders. We had excellent teachers who started lessons with something light. They voiced opinions and encouraged polite, respectful debate when others disagreed. There were rules of engagement we all respected. We had a laugh, were allowed to talk about music or football as long as the work was completed first. We felt like we were treated like adults-in-training rather than children to be spoken down to. Rules were consistent, and consistently applied. When our English teacher said "right guys, I've upheld my side of the bargain, it's time to lock in now" we listened - because we liked and respected him. Because he seemed to like and respect us. Did kids ever get sent out of the classroom, or shouted at? Of course they did. But the other children were more likely to say to him/ her: "Why the hell did you behave like that to Mr K? He's a good teacher and you pissed him off."

Now I'm a mum to a 15yo boy and he says exactly the same. Respect is earned, not demanded. Whether you're and adult or a teenager.

Yes, a friend is a teacher and has a number of Ukrainian students who arrived very traumatised and with no English. They’ve settled well but it was difficult all round and still is for those children.

The one teacher I remember who could always keep my class under control (same class that the ofsted inspector was one of the worst he'd ever seen) was rather like that but with a good dose of scary added in. On our first day we were unruly outside the classroom waiting for her, she arrived and proper shouted at us, stunned us into silence. Then we went into the classroom and she revealed her funny, kind side, had us collaborate on class rules and made us all laugh and from then on she was friendly and lighthearted but we all knew she could be strict and scary so didn't play up for her. The one time a boy made a comment that crossed the line she made him stand up and repeat after her an apology, and he didn't do it again in her class. One of my favourite teachers.

True though.

Oh that hurt!😢