What exactly is the strictness in English schools actually achieving?

One of the most petty things I ever came across was a head saying my son (year 5) and I couldn’t leave a school trip to a museum in the city centre, but had to travel back an hour on public transport to school with the group.

They agreed they still had more than enough adults accompanying the trip for safeguarding ratios. I offered to sign a form to confirm he’d been released into my care. I worked full time and had taken the day off for the trip, so thought my son and I could spend longer (than 2:30pm) in the museum and then I could treat him to something to eat together to make it a special ‘mum and son’ time.

But, no, we had to travel back to school a hour with the group to be back for 3:30pm to go home. The only reason given was ‘rules are rules’ and ‘no exceptions’ could be made.

There is definitely a cultural difference in that education has historically been more valued in Finland, as a country that went from being a poor farming country to a reasonably rich developed one thanks to education (and, ironically, having to pay war reparations) but the other differences are due to the school rules, which focus on the things that actually affect education not things like uniform

Totally agree it was ridiculous. Water is not free it costs a lot of money to collect, purify and distribute. It is a finite resource, paying for it was necessary.

Is the risk of stabbing someone correlated with wearing PE joggers that are slightly the wrong shade of blue?

We have a super strict academy in our area. It had a really oppressive and old school business like feel when we visited. The pupil that showed us round said “they give detentions out for EVERYTHING”

Our school shifted that way a bit when the head changed. The aforementioned suddenly wrong shade of blue (that had been perfectly acceptable for the two previous years) now resulted in seclusion. My DC had their arm in a cast so their blazer wouldn’t actually fit over it - I had to take it to school so that they could carry it around in their bag. I mean, how can anyone, including the students, take rules like this seriously?
Ironically they’ve now changed the uniform policy and blazers are optional, along with trainers being allowed. Same headteacher.
Pointless rules and disproportionate punishments are just as likely to make kids respect authority less as they are so arbitrary and ridiculous.

Goodness! I don’t think schools are strict enough!

It seems I am in a tiny minority here on Mumsnet to have that opinion though.

I feel teachers (who are doing a great job btw) are constantly coming up against entitled children and parents, who would fight against them if they dare spoke negatively towards a child.

The water protests were populist nonsense. We should pay for water like they do in most European countries, it makes total sense.

That makes no sense. No-one was proposing to charge for rain, the charge is for collecting and purifying it then delivering it in pipes to people’s houses.

It’s a culture that started when Academies were first introduced in the Blair years. There was a belief that being uncompromising in the small stuff resulted in positive outcomes in the big stuff, like GCSE results. The trouble is that there’s a difference between clear and consistent expectations and a cruel lack of humanity. The moment a policy is created, it becalmed a bureaucratic decision, rather than a pastoral one. And therein lies the root of what Hannah Arendt, in much more serious circumstances, called the banality of evil.

She's jumping on the spelling mistake of TUSLA which is likely an auto correct. Pathetic.

Yes schools have been diverse for years with no problems. My son went to a similar school, lovely atmosphere, stop blaming immigration for imaginary problems.

Schools see parents and children as the enemy.

Also I just want to say that I personally enjoy lying by a pool in Crete on holiday 😂 And guess what, my son used to literally live for the kids clubs too! It’s not a crime, just snobbery to look down on that sort of holiday in my opinion. But yes I appreciate it’s harder to argue this is cultural enrichment justifying a term time holiday. However I still think there is value in a family holiday like that, if that’s what your family prefers, and I do think the importance of things like a summer family holiday in terms of preserving morale and good mental health and avoiding burnout etc. not only for the child but their family as well, is completely overlooked in favour of educational achievement. And especially at primary school level, it seems ridiculous.

It seems to be achieving:
Increasing absence rates
Huge numbers of children missing from education
Mental health problems
Worsening behaviour
Loads of kids not passing English and maths GCSEs

Best push on in the same direction though!

Yeah in Finland you have to keep up with work even if off sick. In primary school my DD's teacher would send her books home with another student that lived nearby and in upper school she has her books at home anyway and is expected to keep up. When DS had surgery his teacher told me to come pick up his books so he could keep up. A different kind of strictness, not focusing on inconsequential things like what the children wear but on the important things, like what they do (or don't do)

“Why are English schools so strict?”

”Why are kids in England stabbing each other so often?”

ThrallsWife

Schools making parents spend excessive money on uniform, will get parents backs up. I was forced to buy a branded skirt for 2 terms at the end of my dd2s schooling - it caused resentment.

Unfortunatley I see schools do this a lot, over the small things and then when a child is bullied they don't step up.

This causes resentment and when you telephone to get support from the parent - guess what that resentment is there.

I sent my dc to school with a broken leg, they called me to say to collect her as she had the wrong uniform on due to the broken leg just having been plastered and was still wet. I refused to pick her up, but it got my back up that the uniform with a broken leg was more important than getting her back to school in the afternoon for learning. Fortunately she was allowed to join in classes

Things like this are happening and do not grow relationships with parents and this is why when you phone for support - you don't get support as teachers have built a big wall of resentment.

So pleased you’ve raised this OP.

I’ve been saying this for years. I’ve lived in another European country, where schools were much more relaxed, though kids were of course expected to behave respectfully and take school seriously. The ‘zero tolerance’ approach of English schools appears to have few benefits for pupils.

My own English comprehensive secondary (1970/80s) was fully in inclusive. We had kids with all types of disability and the school accommodated their needs. And we were expected to as pupils.

As for strict uniform rules, most European countries, as well as most US schools, don’t require uniform in state schools. It tends to be a British colonial thing.

Because we have a parenting crisis in this country where a huge number of parents have just stopped instilling respect in children, creating chaotic and entitled young people. Schools are in disarray and they’re trying to grapple with it.

Possibly, but it did work with water charges. 😉

The Govt. tried to bring in charges for water and the people weren’t having it. Water falls from the sky and is free, so there was a mass refusal to pay the charges. Within a couple of years, the govt. backed down and in Ireland, we don’t pay anything for our mains water. 😁

Yes I did Education Welfare Officers. What name do you give them?

Sausage Lettuce and Tomato, as in the sandwich.

Or perhaps, given the context that poster meant senior leadership team.

Senior Learning Team

ive just googled SLT and it comes up as speech and language training - this doesn't make sense

I am a soft touch parent and my kids are perfectly well behaved at school and in other peoples homes / in public. They can be total nightmares to me and their dad sometimes but they are working through being tweens / teens so, although it is not tolerated, it is understood.
I think discipline where needed - pointless rules and discipline just makes ALL discipline pointless.

If they feel they are going to get in trouble for everything all the time - why bother trying!