To be increasung concerned about Restore Britain.

Except immigration law has changed a lot since the 90s (become much stricter) and Labour have reduced immigration by a lot. This will have a negative impact on things like prison staffing and university funding, but as you say it's what a lot of people want. Since the 90s we also had a long period of austerity - a deliberate defending of services and housing and several major crises. So it's not just immigration. The problem is, if they cut immigration and it doesn't get better Restore aren't going to turn round and admit the immigrants weren't the real cause of housing shortages.

In some ways I have much less patience for people who were previously pro-immigration now supporting extreme policies like remigration or changing the rules of residence for people already here. There's something iffy about making a deal with people (do this, this and this to get permanent residency) and then, after they have done all those things, threatening to change the agreement. People that wanted migration and now want to remove rights from those same migrants aren't very trustworthy. That's a different thing to changing the rules for newer arrivals. But it's what is being pushed for from Restore and Restore supporters..it's not racist, but I would say its kind of shitty

We shall likely see, won't we? I have looked at the Restore manifesto. Reads like it was written by a five-year-old.

No concrete proposals, a lot of rhetoric and ranting, some suggestions that already exist! Reminds me of the cock- up that was Brexit. That worked out well.

Immigration has declined massively in the last two years.

I think as well ..a lot of people voting reform/ restore
Were pro immigration..years ago ...we could see the positive impact of qualified professionals coming to live in UK ,but then it just got out of hand ..services were stretched,less council houses to go round ..and more people flooding in ..
Slowly things started to seem unfair to people already here , getting put to the back of the list for housing for example
When you have whole families in temporary accommodation for years and years ,no chance of a house and a garden for their family...you wonder why the government let's in more people,to add to the pressure of housing.
When a lot of people coming in are claiming benefits ..taking out ..rather than adding in to the system.. people tend to get twitchy.
Plus try to raise the issue and your called racist
It's not good ..
I don't think a labour government has the balls to make any significant changes

Ah. I see. Got it. Anyone who asks awkward questions is not a real Londoner.

That’s a question from a non Londoner.

What's your method for rooting out real Londoners from fake Londoners?

London was better before. It will easily improve without the overcrowding. It will be a true relief to all real Londoners.

I agree actually
I've already seem a shift in people moving over to restore from reform
Especially with Nigel throwing his toys out the pram recently

I think Restore do not have the social media presence as Reform but once they start using Elon’s money and reach, the British public will leap at the chance of electing Rupert Lowe, by a small margin mind you. (52% to 48%)

Yes. This is what Restore are proposing.
I do not agree with all their points... but many of them.
If you don't/won't work, don't speak the language., don't integrate and take from the system... why the actual fuck should we have to support them???
This also goes for our native work-shy scroungers.
They do however support positive immigration and the right to bring a foreign spouse into the country.
Its not about skin colour.

Hopefully with a tighter grip on uncontrolled immigration and an ever increasing welfare bill.

I don't think they will manage to either.
But if they come in with targets (a million must go apparently though presumably the actual target might be less) that's a worse case scenario because it basically incentives going after the low hanging fruit. Eg people who are following the rules and therefore easy to pick up. actual criminals, people that really don't want to go home will be much harder to locate. As will people who aren't paying into the system. So you punish the good, enable the bad and enable the growth of additional criminal economies. This is true for all parties that set these sort of targets. This is what is happening in America. It's not an imaginary scenario. The criminal gangs are all fine. Ordinary people are in ICE custody.

And whether they do this or not, people will be left disappointed. Because as you say they can't deport every ethnic minority in London. But some people definitely want that. And people that only want criminals deported will be disappointed their lovely neighbour and their deaf child were sent home but the vape shop is still open. So people will become more disillusioned, potentially pushed further right, potentially more riots or people taking the law into their own hands. And the UK will lose any investment opportunities from abroad because it will look like a failed state.

I don't have a problem with deporting serious criminals for example. But you don't need targets for that you need policies.

It is no different to saying I am not panicking about Polanski getting in and allowing everyone from all over the world to get on a flight and settle here permanently. He may say he advocates for open borders, but we all know, that if Green got in by some miracle, that would never happen either.

They were talking about people who will not work, integrate, or learn English, who are rapists and violent, who are members of criminal gangs, those who want to illegally impose their own laws and cultures within ghettoes, those who despise the West and are here to disrupt or terrorise, who think of women as property, those who “marry” children, or who sexually assault girls in gangs.

This is exactly what the Republicans said about Trump's terror regime before it started arresting innocent people left right and centre. It never stops at 'criminals' and a lot of the behaviour you describe is subjective.

Well I am in London so I am not one bit worried about Restore. It seems to me looking around that almost 50% are dual national or born abroad etc so there is no way Restore can send half of London anywhere. So never going to happen.

The political question at hand is to what extent is the immigration that has already happened "locked in"?

Increasing numbers of people are not happy to accept that the changes we've seen particularly in the last 5-10 years but up to the last 30 are permanent.

The longer you wait, the more harsh the treatment will seem. It's a scale from not giving a form of leave in the first place (visa, ILR, citizenship) to stripping ones already given. If you can do the former in time, you don't need to do the latter (with the corresponding impact to people's personal lives).

ILR has already been given to the first wave of post-Brexit arrivals; the peak of the "Boriswave" (2022-23) will be eligible in a year or so.

People who are currently moderate on this issue ("I don't support stripping rights, but we should be more cautious about giving them out") are likely to become harsher as the numbers increase. Because that's what's required to not "lock it in".

I admire your faith but I really don’t
share it.

They are going to try - believe me.

I don’t think that’s a specific to white working class people. I think a lot of Londoners look down on anything outside of Londoner. I have for tonnes of comments about my home
town being a “shit hole” too.

Restore are full of shit. According to Government statistics only 70% of current working age population identifies as White British. That is 30% is not. They won’t be able to send many home!

Err? Most London teens are looking North now for uni and life because they cannot afford London or the SE. And many think there is far more fun to be had in Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester etc. So I think it is possible the tech boom is coming to the North. You just need to rich oldies in London/SE to finance it and invest in it. It can happen with the right will.
Assume you are happy to have the young talent from the SE or not?

My understanding is that Restore hasn't specifically mentioned colour or race when discussing the kind of immigrants, legal or otherwise, that they would wish to deport.

They were talking about people who will not work, integrate, or learn English, who are rapists and violent, who are members of criminal gangs, those who want to illegally impose their own laws and cultures within ghettoes, those who despise the West and are here to disrupt or terrorise, who think of women as property, those who “marry” children, or who sexually assault girls in gangs.

I don't see anything racist in any of these aspirations.
If anything, it's about the cultures or religions that are incompatible with our way of life, and which, in my view, should not be permitted to impose themselves.

I am a member of a minority religion myself, which I practise without demanding any special concessions, or rocking up outside churches or mosques to perform my rituals and piss off the congregations.

I don't see anything to worry immigrants who have come to this country to integrate and contribute, and who are welcome additions.

(I could never support the death penalty, however. Although a lot of people now seem to, not necessarily those from the right)

I can imagine. It was a constructed narrative though.

The entirety of the 2000s was taken up with narrative around "chavs" and jokes about white working class slags etc. meanwhile you had TV shows like benefits streets demonising post industrial regions as filled with drug addicted lazy scroungers. Of course scroungers and lazy people exist. But everyone was tarred with the same brush, and the reasons for high levels of unemployment or despair (deindustrialisation) weren't really of interest. And although I know what you mean about posh people in London, A lot of ordinary people including in the North were also happy to accept the narrative that people on benefits were scum. Mostly because the tabloids told them to. Hoodies, and Chavs were something to fear. Teenage pregnancy was seen as a huge social problem but it was blamed on the pregnant teenagers. Even if they were 14 they were slags not children. No-one wanted a home for looked after children opening on their road. . "Chavy" 14 year olds were a threat, not vulnerable children.
Meanwhile in London "it's grim up North" was a stereotype. The nice bits of the North were ignored by people who either joked about it being a shithole (with no context of the reasons for the deprivation) or people who viewed it only on terms of sympathy. Ignoring that there are many areas that aren't deprived and are beautiful.

The irony is, when the financial crash happened it was the banks, based in London, who became the UKs biggest welfare recipients ever. And went straight back to giving out massive bonuses to their staff a short while after while the country paid back the massive debt incurred and again large parts of the media focussed on people on benefits as the source of the countries woes.

It wasn't just the racial element that caused the grooming gangs to be ignored. And I don't think the establishment wanted to destroy the northern working class. Rather it was a mixture of not understanding/caring and needing a scapegoat for the economic problems in the country that were caused by neo liberalism and later the bank bailout. What worries me is that amongst the anti-migrant rhetoric (which obviously appeals to anyone affected by the Asian grooming gangs for obvious understandable reasons). There is a lot of rhetoric around people on benefits etc that is ten times worse than it was before and it's coming from Farage/Lowe. It's not that I think people should be on benefits rather than working. But there is far less money and resources available to struggling people than 30 years ago not more. Working class white girls were victimised by white men before as well. If they are still othered, and the police corruption and social neglect isn't fixed they will continue to be neglected. All Farage cares about is encouraging different groups to attack each other. I don't have a problem with lowering migration. But I think the stuff it comes with will make it harder to help the most vulnerable children IMO.

What the North and the NorthEast need in particular is more investment and economic help. And the police need investment but also a deep look at possible corruption and mysogynist/classist attitudes.

@Persephonia1966 the rape gangs are everywhere across Yorkshire and Lancs and the lies from the police and politicians, and protection rapists have been given has destroyed communities and caused this issue.

The British middle classes hatred of the white working class proletariat, especially Northerners is so deeply entrenched it is disturbing imo. DS moved to London recently and even well warned was unprepared for the endless constant hatred and abuse directed at him and his heritage.

Imagine a senior solicitor telling an Indian or Sudanese trainee his home is a 'shit hole', his community 'squalid' and 'depressing' this has repeatedly been said to my son.

We live in rural Yorkshire, by some margin the most spectacularly beautiful part of the country imo. Endless Japanese and Chinese visitors photographing 'gods own country'. But to the BBC and the labour party we are villains, baddies, and we need punishment. And we ought to be grateful. Fuck that.

Meant to add to my post that Restore voters will take away from Reform voters which isn't a bad thing the less support Reform get the better

but such openly racist far right parties have never done well in the uk, the lazy stupid racist fuckers usually can't be arsed to vote I can not see that changing