To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

I'm glad you said that out loud bc that's the way i feel too. It's hard to explain, has nothing to do with sex, i just don't like having a woman rummaging around down there. I don't particularly relish a man doing it either 🤣 but it feels less weird.

My poor old dad was similar when he was ill. He didn't want a man changing his catheter. Again, nothing to do with sex, he was 87 and dying of cancer, it just felt wrong for him to have another man down there (he wasn't a homophobe either).

I do wonder what leads men to actively pursue a career where they'll have their face hands and cold metal instruments doing things only women endure.

I also wonder how many female proctologists there are compared to male gynaes.

I've encountered two male gynaes in my experience.

The first lied to me to get me into the stirrups for what he assured me would be just a little look, get a little sample and wouldn't hurt. I was rescued from that by a nurse who stopped him, then he stamped out without speaking to me, leaving her to deal with my distress.

The second asked permission to touch, explained what he was doing, was very gentle and swift, and assured me all looked healthy and my risks were very low.

18 years ago I was in the day unit of the local maternity hospital. Twin babies and me being monitored for early labour. The consultant and registrar who saw us were both men. Didn’t give a shit then and wouldn’t now - they’re just doctors!

Isn’t that the same for lots of doctors? DH has prostate cancer, one of the specialists is female. I’ve mainly had male doctors and surgeons, for sterilisation, hysterectomy, removal of a breast lump and haemorrhoid removal. All the ops were successful, no complaints.

It has never been an issue, and if it had been, I could have requested to see a female. We’re all different, and there is choice for those who feel the need.

I've seen quite a few gynaecologists over the years. Men and women. All but one were fairly dismissive and uninterested in how to help. All NHS. So probably not a man thing, just a gynaecologist thing.

I wouldn't ban them, OP. That would be discrimination.

That said, I will never and have never seen a male doctor or health professional for anything female health related. Unless it is a real life or death emergency and I had no choice, I would never, ever want to be seen or treated by a man and I always insist on a woman for any appointments or scans.

I had the most horrific experience with a male obstetrician. I’ve had to have therapy and I most certainly (according to my clinical psychologist) have PTSD. I will not describe the experience other to say it was incredibly invasive, unnecessary and I was injured and bruised due to his brute strength during the procedure. Could a woman have done that to me in the same procedure, no chance as he was sweating as he did it he was using so much force. So no men should not be. He should not have been.

Not quite the same issue, I know, but the only rough treatment I ever had during two difficult, assisted labours, was from a female obstetrician.

You wouldn't have to restrict the total, we have more than enough female doctors unable to obtain a training places, it's partly what their current strikes are about.

There are 20,000 resident doctors, at least half of them female, in this year's cohort alone. The last estimated I saw was 100,000 trained doctors with no route into specialist training. Some of them are driving taxis.

It is unreasonable that a woman is told “accept intimate contact from a man or go to the bottom of the list”.

You know someone who has received an NHS letter saying exactly this? I hope they complained about it to PALS

And a woman not wanting to see a male gynaecologist is being comprehensively challenged and disagreed with. What’s your point?

Utterly ridiculous. I just want someone competent in a specialty, male or female. Stop assuming all male gynaecologists are up to no good, because it's such a lazy view.
And I gave to say, the most unsympathetic medic I ever saw about a gynae issue was.... female.

I’ve always had male gynae. It’s fine. 🤷‍♀️

Of course they’re allowed to be upset and can complain if they want to given those circumstances, and I see why having a female is important to them however it’s unreasonable to want to have men banned from a profession which would impact waiting times for all women. Tbh believe me if you need life saving gynae surgery and time is of the essence you won’t be bothered who carried out the procedure.

It is unreasonable that a woman is told “accept intimate contact from a man or go to the bottom of the list”.

Especially when the communication skills of many consultants’ teams are so piss poor. Just how much information is the random junior male gynae going to get from an anxious woman? That is relevant to the medical coutcomes.

I agree with them, I dont think you have a right to complain about a longer wait if you are requiring your doctor to have specific characteristics such as being female

I feel as though the discussion keeps shifting now and thats not a coincidence.

It started with claims about male gynaecologists themselves, then moved on to patient preferences, then workforce ratios, then sexism in medicine, then trauma, and now mammographers.

Those are all separate issues.

I completely accept that some women strongly prefer female gynaecologists, particularly if they have experienced trauma, and I agree that sexism in medicine should be tackled wherever it exists.

However, neither of those points demonstrates that male gynaecologists are unsuitable, nor do they support the original implication that men enter the specialty for inappropriate reasons or that they should be in "the minority".

The reason I keep returning to the study you posted is that it simply doesn't support the conclusions being drawn from it. It tells us about patient preferences. It doesn't tell us what the "ideal" workforce ratio is, and it certainly doesn't tell us anything about the motives or character of male gynaecologists.

It feels as though we've moved a long way from your original claims, which suggests those claims were harder to defend than the later points about patient choice and trauma and so its not surprising you keep bringing up new issues.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I’ve seen a few gynaecologists and they’ve all been men. It’s a running joke as DH now always asks if it was a man and we muse on why there are so few women gynaes.

I don’t mind though, it’s just an interesting observation.

Of course there’s sexism in the profession, if there wasn’t then the NHS would not be around 75% female.

The desire to control women is not exclusively heterosexual. Some of the worst misogynists I’ve ever met were gay men.

Adam Kay’s book suggested both a very misogynistic mindset and also very sneery/snobbish attitude to many of his patients. The only sympathetic character was his poor hard done by self.

All that said @CaragianettE YANBU to want a woman but the problem could be better addressed by giving women an actual choice which we don’t have in the current UK health system.

I saw many female gynaecologists and honestly I never felt so dismissed, I was brushed off with its normal, you’ll be fine just live with it. There is nothing normal bleeding for 18 out of every 26 days a month with clots the size of apples, the blood loss causing me to become so anaemic I needed iron infusions. I had this for over 10 years, dismissed everytime, take the pill, have a coil, there is nothing wrong with you.

I saw a fantastic male one who took one look at my history, ordered the tests I needed and offered me an ablation or hysterectomy there and then, the decision was completely mine and he offered me so much reassurance. I got my diagnosis within weeks and the operation within a month after that.

So yes I do think men can do the job.

My issue was with the pp saying that women shouldn't complain about longer waits.

This is a "you" problem

It absolutely is ridiculous. You’re allowed to have a preference, nobody is disputing that. But to say men should be banned from the profession is a bloody stupid thing to suggest.