American Influencers who terminated for T21.

As I said earlier in this thread I hope those who are so quick to pass judgement on those who make this horrendous decision are campaigning for better support for people with disabilities.

it’s all well and good sitting behind a screen and judging but the reality is the world operates in such a way to make it very difficult to raise a disabled child.

I agree. There’s a reason parents of babies with a birth diagnosis don’t tend to have them adopted en masse, and do end up coping, because they meet the baby and love them and manage from there. I guess it’s easier when you haven’t actually seen them and it’s still a ‘procedure’.

My sisters friend had a birth diagnosis and her son is totally adorable and their family is very happy. He’s a bright little thing, he’s 4 now but was talking and walking by 2. His disability is certainly less severe than the children at DD school with non verbal autism who can’t speak or understand anything but appeared healthy at birth.

I hope not.

I am sure many parents of children with severe autism would probably choose to not continue if they could have predicted the future. I think you should have the choice if the disability is detected to end the pregnancy.

I feel huge guilt every day over the very early termination I had when I was 16. It took a while to come but when it did it was crushing. It still is, to be honest. I can’t imagine having a 20 week termination when a baby had actively been tried for and when married etc. What if their next baby is born ‘healthy’ but is severely autistic? I know loads of people this has happened to. There are 4 such children at DD’s school alone.

I don’t think I could ever terminate for medical reasons and I know two amazing young people who have Down Syndrome.

However I fully acknowledge that raising a disabled child is fucking difficult and if as a parent you know you aren’t in a position to provide that level of care then I fully support TMFR. No woman should be forced to continue a pregnancy where she doesn’t feel it’s the right choice for her. Rightly there are legal limits in place for when they can take place but the option should always be there.

I think in choosing to have a baby, you accept that there is a chance you won't be having a "perfect" child.

Moat of the time it is Edwards or Patau syndrome that are the reason for termination and they are usually not compatible with life usually.

They've put the information out there knowing its an emotive subject. Understandably.

People arent wrong to have an opinion, people are also not wrong to know what they can personally do.
Parenting a SEN child is not possible for everyone.

All the reference to ‘T21’ is a new thing. Just feels like a PR word change to disguise the fact we’re talking about people with Down Syndrome.

It is up the mother what she wants to do. I bet many parents would also abort if they knew their child had autism. No judgement there either unless you think it is a super power?

How do we know it was 20 weeks? The scan photo they released on 29 March looked very early, more like a 7/8 week scan than a 12 week scan. And the trisomy screening is usually carried out at 12 weeks. Not sure when the termination happened but if it hadn’t then that would make her 16ish weeks by now?

Oh that's extremely valid "lived experience" obviously! I think you hit the nail on the head with the phrase in brackets - undoubtedly some should have one! We get a fairly high rate of late diagnosed Autism in young people with congenital conditions, not because the Autism (and ADHD) weren't pretty obvious from fairly early, but because the child was in specialist education and had a myriad of medical appointments from early on due to the primary diagnosis, so following up on other suspected conditions formally wasn't a priority, the way it is where the isn't another explanation for atypical development.

We quite often get girls especially coming to us at 17 or 18 with a new Autism diagnosis "on top" of a chromosomal disorder (not exclusively T21) which was diagnosed prenatally or in babyhood. Often the Autism diagnosis follows a psychiatric placement unfortunately - puberty sometimes brings things into focus obviously.

We also have plenty of ADHD interventions for individuals without a diagnosis - we suggest diagnosis but where the young person is already in the right setting for them, parents or guardians rarely pursue an additional diagnosis unless they want to try medication.

I think people just see the DS actor in Call The Midwife or the cbeebies character and think that is what DS is about.

But this is exactly what I said above about there being more judgment for TFMRs than there is for normal abortion. Abortion is legal in the UK for ANY reason up to 24 weeks. Yes not many happen at that stage but not many TFMRs happen either.

5 months isn’t an uncommon time for this, even in the UK. It’s about 20-22 weeks which is when we have the NHS anomaly scan, if DS (or other issues) are detected at that scan then there is the option of TFMR.

Down syndrome can be linked to intellectual disability but also other significant health problems like heart defects. TFMR is not just for cases where continuing the pregnancy would risk mum or babies life.

But I would say that’s a huge risk to mum and baby. Surely the risk of PPD and PPP increases? And America is crazy, they’re highly unlikely to terminate that late in the game unless there’s something else in the medical diagnosis that makes the baby unviable that we don’t know about.

I couldn't disagree more with the comments on this thread. I couldn't believe anyone could put out such a video, especially people who apparently have a large following.

I also can't believe they were allowed to terminate a pregnancy at 5 months for something that wasn't a risk to the lives of the mother or the baby.

I don't really have an opinion on abortion either way, but to be honest I found some of the couple's comments a bit tone-deaf. I'm sure it was a hard decision, and they have their own reasons and grief now to deal with but the bit where they said they were excited to 'try again and get a better outcome' was where I got a bit stuck with my sympathies.

everyone has an opinion. Here’s mine; they do not just give out terminations willy nilly. It’s not easy to get a termination and it’s incredibly hard emotionally.
A friend had the screening and came back with a similar diagnosis. She continued with the pregnancy and ended up having a child with complex medical needs. She often now wishes she could turn the clock back and change her opinion, because the complexities of caring for her SEND child are so extreme, her life as she knew it, is over.
On the other hand I have two children with SEND, and they both are thriving and appear neurotypical most days. One has autism and the other has ADHD, and they cope well with our strategies.

That’s really interesting. Thank you for explaining your background. My unscientific “lived experience” comes from having a child with a triple diagnosis (DS/ASD/ADHD) and knowing loads of children and young people with DS but not many with a duel diagnosis (though some undoubtedly should have one!)