American Influencers who terminated for T21.

This was the biggest factor for me in deciding to have a TFMR - the impact on my existing DS.

I’ve seen it. The comment section on those posts are… eye opening. In the sense of some of the “hot takes” being so fucking stupid and completely unrealistic. For example; yes I’m sure there are suitable people out there who want to and actually do, adopt children with SN and complex disabilities. But I’d bet my house that there isn’t enough of those suitable people to go around adopting all these children and give them a good, happy upbringing. The amount of “pro lifers” who insist unwanted (for any reason) babies should be born and are then perfectly content with these children languishing in foster care is staggering.

I did see other posts from parents and other relatives of disabled children basically saying that they love their children but the medical debt they’re in and always will be in is huge. That was a factor I hadn’t even thought about until then. It’s hard being a carer to a child with disabilities as it is. Doing that with large amounts of debt because of it, must be beyond stressful.

It is no one’s business.
When you open your life to the public, this is what happens, some influencer types think all publicity is good, the bad and good as long as it generates attention.
We live in a mad world of attention seeker fools celebrating talentless people.

I don't have a problem with tfmr but I've seen bits of the videos and it's literally all for clout. I feel bad for the woman because in the gender reveal video the guy knew about the issue but just went ahead with the video. He brushed it off to his wife going "ah there might be a health issue but it's nothing major and let's do the video anyway". So she had the joy of finding out she was having a boy and then walking off to read the message from the doctors and broke down. It was all filmed and posted on YouTube. I believe they made further videos of themselves finding out the actual results and again this very private pain was filmed and posted for clicks. I'm guessing she consented to it but the whole thing made for a very uncomfortable watch. Like this is where we are now.

Yes you are correct they no longer sleep in shifts, he has only been in care for three months though so they're still adjusting to normal life.

Yes this is about hatred that the couple are receiving but the impact on siblings and the reality of the life long task of looking after a disabled child is a huge part of the discussion that cannot be swept under the carpet by saying things like it can be overcome if you are aware of your other children's needs too. It cannot. And the people banging on about it being disgusting to terminate a pregnancy due to disability need to understand the utter destruction disability causes to lives and whole families to understand what they are really advocating for. Because the problem is that they don't understand what they advocating for, they can't possibly or they would understand that it's about the prevention of this level of inhumane suffering and not simply about wanting a perfect child.

They need to see beyond the cute little girl with down syndrome that their siblings love playing with and see the real, horrifying future that awaits many families of severely disabled children. When a PP tried to explain the impact it had on her and all the other people in her support group the poster you think I was too hard on commented in a way that suggests all that can be avoided if the parents are just aware. It can't. And comments like that water down the point all these posters are trying to make. It's not helpful, it's actively unhelpful because it's gives the people advocating against termination for disabilities ammo for their agenda of "the parents just aren't trying hard enough".

That is the root cause of the hatred this couple are getting. People think they're monsters, for what? Preventing suffering? They obviously don't see it that way. They see them as monsters who just want a perfect child, or people who didn't want to try hard enough to make a good life for their disabled child. They need to understand the suffering they are advocating for because a basic part of being human is having enough compassion to prevent suffering when presented with the opportunity to do so.

It doesn't have equal rights though.

Well it's less that 0.5 chance of it being wrong ( both positive and negative)

SerenaCat93 I am so sorry that your Aunt and Uncle and Cousins have had such an incredibly awful time with no family help. I can feel the anger and frustration in your post.
I was a bit confused as to why they are sleeping in shifts now when you’re cousin is now in care but I presume that you have simply got your tenses muddled due to the obvious horror that this has caused to your family.
I do feel though that the end of your post is very hard on thedogmademessagain who is the parent of a disabled person making the best of their lives..
The original post was about the hatred on social media turned against this couple, let’s not add to it.

I'm not saying I'm more aware, but I am aware. All disabilities are different with different impacts. Some certainly make it easier than others to take a more balanced approach. I am in the more fortunate camp.

Even with all the awareness in the world sometimes there is just nothing left for the healthy sibling after the disabled sibling has taken everything their parents have to give and more. If the disability is severe enough, no amount of "awareness" will give the healthy sibling all the time and nurturing they need to grow up well.

My aunt and her husband sleep in shifts at night, they haven't shared a bed for 15 years, one sleeps with their severely autistic, non verbal son whilst the other one sleeps in bed. They only get half a nights sleep each and they both have chronic health conditions as a result of chronic stress and not being able to look after their own health. They have to lock the whole family in the garage to protect themselves when my non verbal nephew goes on a rampage and smashes the house up because he's having a meltdown. He smears feces on the walls. He's broken their bones. His older brother DESPISES him because he's never got the attention, time and nurturing he needed succeed when he was growing up. His brother took everything and left nothing for him. He didn't get to go to hobbies or have a parent spend one on one time with him because it was physically impossible for them to do so. They knew he needed those things but we're unable to give them to him because of the younger brothers needs and had no family support to give the older brother a good life.

Now the younger non verbal is in full time adult residential care because his parents couldn't cope with him anymore, all they have left is a smashed up house, failing health and a son that resents them and hates his brother. They knew the older son needed more but they just had nothing left to give him. As an adult now he is unemployed, has no qualifications and no prospects, he never learned the skills he needed to learn because he never got enough support. You can't pull time and the resources needed to nurture the healthy sibling out of your arse just because you're "aware" the child needs it. When there's nothing left for them, there's nothing left for them. No time, energy or money left. Just nothing.

It is incredibly short sighted to say you were more aware than everyone else because you provided for your other children. Just having that left over to give them is an immense amount of privilege many parents of disabled children don't have and the fact you think it's just that they are unaware of how they should provide for their other children is insulting. Severe disability ruins siblings lives because it takes more than anyone could possibly have to give, not because people are unaware they need to give the healthy siblings provisions too!

Of course not. It will make our child's life more difficult, which none of us want.

I did decline the 12 week scan to do the initial screen as I thought it would just create anxiety if something showed up. I also knew I'd never have an amnio due to the small risk of loss. So I guess I chose to roll the dice there.

Of course. As I've said, you never know what will happen and you can only manage and minimise the risks, not control them entirely - but with testing for DS you do know, and you can eliminate that risk if you desire (or not, if you don't want to). As it should be, the choice is up to the pregnant woman (who will be raising the child).

I still think it's deliberately obtuse for people to pretend that a DS diagnosis is an outcome equally as desirable as discovering you're gestating a healthy child. It's just not.

Of course, we all hope for our children to have as easy a life as possible. However, we generally end up with the baby we get, especially if prenatal testing isn't an option for whatever condition eventually emerges. I was prepared that could happen, even though it didn't till much later.

I'm sorry your parents put that on you. I think some parents just don't exercise awareness when it comes to their other children. I have made sure mine is provided for after our deaths and told my children they have to be free to live their lives.

Fair enough! But as I said, I doubt any loving parent would actively choose for their child to have DS, or be disappointed that they didn't have it.

So it seems deliberately obtuse to act as though people shouldn't be hoping for a healthy, 'standard-issue' baby, and don't consider that the best outcome.

I am parenting a disabled adult. They're an amazing person who has opened my world in so many ways and they have said they enjoy their life.

My child was in their teens before any kind of disability showed up. Anyone who doesn't recognise the gamble in having a child as far as this sort of thing should probably not have one at all.

Actually, I believe some states in the US do have filial responsibility laws.

Many claim to have had amnios but I haven't had to verify as this isn't something I've ever had to deal with. I hope they are liars or wrong though, because I can't imagine how it would feel to make that choice then find out it was wrong.

This is such a brilliant post. It's beautifully summarises everything that is wrong with the pro life brigade and people who fetishise disability as a beautiful thing that makes someone special and call preventing their suffering a sin, disgusting and proof that people see the disabled as less than human and not worthy of life.

Of course disabled people are worthy of life, no one in their right mind would murder a disabled person because they think they are sub human. And nobody believes disabled people are worth less than able people. But most people who have any empathy for human suffering, given the chance to prevent that suffering happening in the first place, by preventing the life from happening in the first place, would in a heartbeat. It is an act of mercy. Only a sick God would demand suffering for his own pleasure but the nutty Christians can't see or accept that so they prolong horrific suffering for a s long as possible and get a perverse sense of righteousness out of it. Now THAT is disgusting.

I have only seen a little on this but the criticism I have seen is not related to the termination but some of the ignorant comments they made around people with DS and their health conditions etc. I think most people (even people with children that have DS) can understand the termination but their comments around recovering and having a better outcome next time were crass in my opinion.

I remember reading about a mum of a boy with DS campaigning to get rid of the test because she felt pressured to abort. Okay let's just take the choice away for other women. 🙄

I can understand that but it's so hypocritical, really, if one is otherwise okay with abortion. For instance, I'm not offended by people having abortions, and I don't think that means they think children aren't worthy of life; I just understand it means that they didn't want to have a child/continue the pregnancy.

And the faux naivety around 'why would someone have a problem with a DS child?' is grating too, given that I'm sure no loving parents would actively choose for their child to have DS, or be disappointed that they didn't have DS.

It’s also not as black and white as letting go completely and having no input whatsoever or doing all the care yourself and receiving no help at all. When people go into care homes families can still visit take their family member for trips holidays medical appointments etc.