Are parents too involved in teenagers' A levels and independence compared to how they used to be?

I’ve been thinking recently that there might be a connection with this over investment and the fact that so many young people are now going NC with their parents - maybe it’s an attempt to finally break free and have some independence.

Really? You really thought that was normal?

Arguably to if you end up doing a lot of the doing of studying, even drafting essays, revision checking etc what you may end up with is a child who expects this to happen wherever they go in life. That there is someone else who will provide this level of intervention and support to this extent.
At university, in the workplace. And it will not be so.

We need to accept that university is not a place every young person should go to.
If young people go to university it should be under their own steam.

Same. We are paying 30k for each child and very, very involved in their education. The school had an event day this week and you wouldn’t believe how many parents turned up- both parents. This is very much the norm though. Maybe private schooling is different because all the parents I know are quite involved.

I have my kids curriculum printed out each term, we go through it together for each subject and identify anything we could do that would enrich that topic/subject for them. Maybe a museum trip, a specific book, anything really. This seems to be the norm for all the parents that I know. I thought this was normal?

One of DD's friends has a parent who more or less did this. The friends really struggled with her post grad degree. DD did all her work herself and has just won an academic award for her post grad studies.

Exactly. And if they are slipping and falling off it's the parent's responsibility to guide them onto the right path.

Schooling and education is important. - it is, but they have to be the ones doing it!!

I think there is a difference between support and interference. My DD is doing GCSEs so a bit younger but I will test her on her flash cards, have a look at her practice paper answers with her, and I reread her set texts for English so she could talk stuff through with me as needed. This is when she asks, not because I sit her down to do it! I don't sit with her when she revises, nag her to revise, write things for her etc. as that would be me doing the work, not her!

I also definitely know when all her exams are as some subjects are just not her strength and cause anxiety and I need to be aware of that when she gets a bit stressed and grumpy.

I have a younger daughter who is about to sit lower school exams, and I do scaffold revision for her more - again not doing it for her but I do sit with her (normally reading or on my laptop but nearby to answer questions!), help her breakdown what she is revising today (ie, this list of french vocab, this page of science notes) and provide the materials for her to produce revision resources, then quiz her at the end of the session. This is to allow her to develop revision skills, which many young people completely lack, so by the time she gets to important exams she can do it herself!

My parents weren't academic at all and didn't go to uni so I did it all on my own. I went to an academically selective school and was one of very few girls who wasn't from a fairly wealthy background and I did feel at sea at times. I want my kids to understand that they need to do the work, but if they are stuck with how or just need a bit of emotional support then of course I'm here. There's a middle ground between "you're on your own", and "I'm doing everything for you!"

Yet the "I don't need to support my child" parents don't seem to understand that not all children are driven like their DC are
Again, it doesn't have to be black or white.

However, a teenager who struggles with concentration and organisation need help and support ..to learn to concentrate and organise themselves, not to have their assignments almost done for them because they struggle to do it themselves because of these struggles

Sadly that's exactly what many parents do...over and over...and then blame employers when their kids still struggle with concentration and organisation when they enter the work place and can't keep up with what is expected of them!

My ds is doing a'levels now. I have the exam calendar, so I know when he's likely to be nervous, even a bit snappy.

He likes to explain the details of gravity or magno-electric fields and how they work, (physics) because he finds talking it through helps him to be clear on how to describe it. I'm happy to do that if it helps.

But I don't chase him to revise, that's his responsibility.

Some of my DC are attending or have attended the top unis for their subjects. One DC is in private sector employment, another will be perusing a PhD and is doing meaningful and interesting research.

Youngest DC will be on a degree apprenticeship soon at a major firm in a well paying sector. The apprenticeship years pay £30k plus which is more than what today's grads make. This came because of hard work, studying and dedication.

My DD is doing her A Levels. I’ve never had any input. She’s never wanted help with homework or revision since she started high school. In fact I’m away on holiday and she is getting on with it. We are very close and have a great relationship. She also has a part time job in a working men’s club.

My parents were completely disinterested in my education or the idea of my getting on. Only "snobby" people did that. I was not allowed to stay on for A levels and I don't think they had any idea of what subjects I did at O level. I was lucky enough to get into the civil service despite that. however this was back in the late 1950s/early 60s and there were not then the resources that are available now.

It is good for parents to support and advise their children in their choices. However I do feel many of the posts on Mumsnet show helecoptering parents who do not allow their children to develop the level of independence and self belief I had at 16. I read about kids in their teens who have never travelled alone on public transport because their parents have ferried them around like parcels. And 18 year old adults going off to uni whose parents pack for them.

I agree about a balance, and I think the truth is that balance has shifted somewhat, because things are undeniably more competitive. More students than ever are wanting to get on courses, and the academic bar drifts higher.

Some of the "organising a household" or "managing my salary that isn't coming for years" type skills that this bunch may seem to lack are not as imminently necessary as that A* for the course they really want. Believe me, none of us wielded an iron at uni! It isn't needed. And I think to a degree parents are responding to the exigencies of the situation. It is getting competitive.

I wouldn't want my children to get average grades and go to crap unis and be locked out of many opportunities. I'd want my children to achieve to the best of their ability.

You can still get top grades (my DC did) and be well rounded, have a social life, be happy.

Schooling and education is important. You can be a good student and once studies are done, have fun with friends and family.

Do you want them to earn well, be able to afford nice things and have a life? When they're on minimum wage jobs struggling to make ends meet will you be glad you let them "just be happy"?

Why on earth can't a 15 year old look for work experience? I had 3 paid Saturday/after school jobs from age 14 until i left school. I found every job, no help or input from my parents. All of my children did the same.
My Stepson wanted a job a few years ago, all his friends e-mailed their CV's to local companies. Our lad was so shy we had to intervene so we took him to the local library to print off copies of his CV and told him to go round all the local businesses and hand in his CV. He knew we would be following to make sure he did it.
He went into the second place and he was ages. He came out after about 30 mins with a huge grin on his face, he had a job. The owner was delighted that someone was willing to walk in and introduce themselves as she thought it showed he was willing to put the effort in. He worked every Saturday for a year and then did 3 days a week whilst he was at college.
Working there was one of the best things he ever did. The change in him was immense. As he had saved half is wages one week and all of them the next week it got him into really good money management that in turn helped him buy his first flat at 20 years old.

I so agree - I am mind-boggled by the over-involvement of parents. I was just left to get on with it, as were my now adult children - I just told them to let me know if there was anything they needed to help them study or if they needed a cup of tea and they just got on with it. All did well.

It depends what your dc want to do with their lives. Average grades aren't enough for a lot of things.

Even the grades mentioned above by a pp who said her parents asked her if she was sorted and she got AAA is by no means a below average bunch, but it would fall short of some of the more competitive courses.

And getting good grades doesn't automatically mean you don't know how to socialise well. Sometimes the 18 year old's version of socialising well means drinking too much and throwing up! Someone who is a social success at 18 isn't always a guarantee of future attraction. I know a lady who told her dc "date nerds: they are the ones who you'll think are cool at 40"! It is too easy to generalise about these things.

As for life experience, well, we all get there ... sadly!

Yes there's way too much over involvement, which really really hinders being able to think and act independently and function as an adult in the real world.

Its a huge culture shock for many young people once they're somewhat removed from parental supervision and we see the knock on effects both in universities and workplaces.

I think a lot of parents channel their anxiety in a very damaging way, be it micromanaging their elder teens studies or satellite tracking their locations. It's fucking weird. And frankly shameful how many young people are completely incapable of doing normal everyday tasks without explicit instruction and guidance.

Seems that way from what I see online.

My two went through A levels 10/14 years ago and other than making them cups of tea and offering to test them the night before exams if they needed it I didn’t get too involved. I think I did read through personal statements because they asked me to, and went to a few open days.

I see lots of posts on fb pages about uni applications and it definitely gives the impression the parents are applying as much as the kids.

It's really different now - I also don't think my parents even knew what A-levels I was doing - but it comes from the school. The expectations are set by them that you're expected as parents to be much more involved in helping them study, choose universities etc. Also school is much more controlling over sixth form students than in my day (early 90s). They're really strict about phones, uniform, being allowed out at lunchtime, having to do PE etc etc. When I was at sixth form college, it was a lot more like university. But kids are helicoptered more all round these days. I blame Michael Gove!

Although I agree with you I do wish my parents had been a little more involved back in the 90s. They wouldn't have been able to tell you what A levels I was taking, how many or what my grades were like 🤷‍♀️

This is interesting though, as in my grandparent's parenting era (so my parents) it was 21 seen as the adult threshold. 18 wasn't the same thing.

MN is ridiculous on this. Kids are basically expected to survive independently on the dot of 18, or they are supervised to within an inch of their life.
My parents both left school at 15, though doubt my Dad ever attended much. I went to an academic high pressure school, walked through my O levels, but A levels were a shock. My parents didn't have any way of supporting me, they loved me and my mum wanted to help but just didn't have the knowledge. My mainly middle class peers had educated parents and the occasional tutor. I pretty much failed all my A levels.

Consequently I have supported my kids where they have needed it. Bought them revision books, the occasional tutor, offered lifts, stocked up on snacks and didn't expect them to do chores whilst revising, haven't helicoptered and one child was super independant (surprisingly, that one went on to struggle at uni).
But claiming you are so removed from your child's education that you wouldn't even know what days they had which exams is a weird kind of flex.

This is why University comes as a shock to many over-involved parents when they have to realise that their sprog is an adult and the Uni, landlords etc. are not obliged/allowed to engage with them at all! They have done their 'child' no favours if the 'child' cannot deal with their own problems as they crop up.