Political badges should be banned from NHS uniforms

Things I have personally heard patients complain about :
A colleagues hijab
A colleagues Zimbabwean accent - to them it sounded "aggressive"
The idea that no patient will ever feel intimidated or upset due to their own personal assumptions/ prejudices / triggers is ridiculous. What matters is that patient care Is it the highest quality standard.

What do you mean? I listed a bunch of examples of celebration events. No there isn't a singular "everyone day" but by having days and networks that celebrate Muslim, Jewish, sikh, Catholics, multi faith alliances, heritage days from all countries isn't picking one side or sowing division. What's sowing division is the repeated point unevidenced that those who may have a pin are completely anti everyone else can completely ignoring that actually the doctor with a Palestine pin is probably part of a multifaith alliance with Jewish and other religious staff members and actually an opportunity for everyone to see that even those we think are different or other still treated them with the utmost respect. The demand for neutrality doesn't go anywhere except cementing the idea that it's impossible to feel solidarity with a cause close to you without hating others, which sounds familiar to MRAs accusing women of having tunnel vision and misandry.

You also keep insisting a neutral position would be better without facing the real world circumstances of how you'd achieve that without picking some allowed positions over other.

We're drowning in self righteousness.
I don't have a answer - what's the medicine for this cultural malaise?

I'm sorry for what your family is being put through.

The other thing is why would a gay or trans teenager think you would hate them?
Hate is a strong emotion for someone you are meeting in a professional capacity.
I personally think all the 'you're safe with me' messages can be counter productive. They can lead into an implication/ narrative that other people are not safe.

I do see you are coming from a place of kindness and it may be that in your very specific job it is important. But for 99% of NHS staff when dealing with the public it should be irrelevant.

What an extraordinary idea that you need a pin to communicate that you don't hate your patients.

As a HCP the starting assumption should be that you don't hate any of your patients and you demonstrate that via your treatment of them.

You can equally signal to a gay or trans teenager that you don't hate them by your body language, by your smile, by your helpful attitude.

Many GC women won’t out themselves if you ask For fear they’ll be labelled as anti trans or homophobic
The same reason many women patients have to suffer the intimidation in hospitals in silence.

see the news article upthread

Yes its sad that things like the rainbow will be removed but I guess if irs become political then it needs to go too. I hadn't seen it in that way before. Im going to ask around at work and see what others think!

The bottom line is there is just no need for any signalling. It is irrelevant to the job.

And it seems someone is wearing whatever badge/lanyard precisely because they are face to face with the public . I’m sure they don’t wear their badge round the house. It’s meant to be seen and make a point.

I don't agree. You are signaling to a gay or trans teenager than you dont hate them. Thats important to me. I am aware of the gender sex debate. I want people to feel comfortable in my presence. Im not a fan of removing women's rights and if the rainbow symbolises that then it shouldn't be used - i dont think it does at the moment and would need to see more evidence of this before taking it off my lanyard.

@Sunnyduvet
re your question does the rainbow badge offend you

Im guessing you’ve missed all the GC campaigning and court cases
Here’s a view held by many women including lesbians

Viewed as ideological: Some gender-critical women, as highlighted by groups like The Christian Institute, argue that rainbow lanyards symbolize "gender ideology" (the concept that gender can differ from biological sex) and suggest the wearer is hostile to gender-critical views. []

Viewed as political: Critics and some regulatory bodies have debated whether wearing the lanyard compromises institutional impartiality. For example, the Scottish Parliament banned staff from wearing rainbow lanyards to maintain strict neutrality. 1, 2, 3, 4]

Workplace protections: Recent legal rulings, such as the High Court win by a gender-critical activist against Northumbria Police, have fueled ongoing discussions about how these symbols impact workplace neutrality and free speech

I’ve just asked my daughter what she’d think if her therapist (who she’s seeing partially due to anxiety after being attacked at school by violent thugs shouting Free Palestine) was wearing a Palestine badge and she said that she’d have to leave the room.

So we talked about how if she is in an accident or does need to see the school nurse etc that she’ll need to be ready to ignore this. That not all people wearing them wish her harm, just some of them and she needs to try to ask for help if she needs it. And then I got in a muddle about how to tell her to trust people who seem super untrustworthy and I don’t actually know what to say to her. It hadn’t occurred to me but she very well might come across this without my being there and she needs to be able to cope. Adding this to my list of things to think about.

Agree

Do you not feel women are vulnerable ?

Offend? No.
(But unfortunately the rainbow badge has become tainted by the trans-rainbow which has been used to try to remove womens rights.)
However wrt the rainbow, I would expect all employees of the NHS to behave professionally and with care. By signalling with a badge that you especially care (about one specific group) you are leaving open the questions: do others Not care? & do you Not equally care about other groups?

We are discussing the guide though aren’t we
That’s the point of the thread

Patients care is also a priority so therefore anything that intimidate them should not be worn
GC women and some lesbians for example

Wearing a non political lanyard wouldnt upset anyone
Its Therefore completely inclusive

I dont think a badge that shows support towards women (what sort of badge are we actually talking about here?) would automatically trigger me to think of the sex / gender debate - I would just think oh thats nice, this person supports women / cool badge.

Maybe your point is the old argument that if something offends you then it needs to be removed. Which is a bit of a sad state of affairs.

I think it would be a shame to have to take off the rainbow badges because they speak to a group of people who are sometimes vulnerable and I want to show support for them as a person who may be in a position of power. Im coming from the point of view of a doctor who sees lots of young people with mental health issues. I am also coming from point of view of someone who is not offended by the rainbow symbol.

Tbh I would almost rather keep the Palestine badges then have to lose all the badges that symbolise tolerance! I was more just agreeing in my earlier post that theyve always made me uncomfortable and I was glad to see it wasn't just me

Out of interest does the rainbow badge offend you?

Supporting women isn't polarised?!
Have you been following the legal routes women have been having to follow to keep single sex spaces?

Well I see your point but I work with kids so think a rainbow can make a big difference to a child in distress who may feel safer just knowing they are accepted. None of these badges you mention are polarised topics- supporting women or disabled people is fine and wouldn't cause offence to anyone. The issue is some people use the Palestinian flag to be anti Jew or anti Israel which many Jews feel is the same as anti Jew.

Its a lovely sentiment but I don't think there are any initiatives that do celebrate everyone, even if that's the intent?

There is too much division at the moment and picking one side is inherently seen as being anti the other. A neutral position would be better, particularly for something as important as healthcare where people don't have a choice about using it.

I know I get that, I wasn't saying they're the same dynamic but if PP and her children can't be in a waiting room with one, it's still creating distress that she says means she would need to leave the building which is why I said even if you ban political symbols by staff you're still going to see many of them in hospitals, or any shares public space. I don't think it's as simple as banning the pins and lanyards either given many of the inclusion initiatives have a presence across site - LGBT network displays, a pride flag in pride month, we have a union jack flag flown, we have the memorial's eid, hannukah, other religious network celebrations in the middle of site viewable to patients. The NHS is multicultural and it's common to have heritage days with the hospital menu celebrating that, flags of the country or a steel drum band outside outpatients on a day in black history month for example. It would be one thing if this never happened and maybe I'd agree it would be simpler, but peddling back on a initiatives that celebrate everyone is hard to justify without sounding regressive and like we can't actually all love together and still treat eachother with respect despite our differences.

There is a difference between a doctor or nurse responsible for treating you wearing something that is distressing or makes you wary of them, another patient does not have power over me when I'm vulnerable.

I think all flags should be banned. There is no legitimate reason staff should wear any flag. You obviously can't predict all patient responses but were there is a known issue there is no reason to ignore it because of hypothetical extremes.

Keeping a policy which harms patients is not an appropriate response to issues associated with NHS pay and working conditions. I also don't think everything to do with inclusio ln etc needs to be dropped, just things that could result in harm to patients (which just seems to be the pins and lanyards?)

its actually not.

Based on your responses, I can't tell if you want the freedom to wear whatever symbols you like and don't care about the impact on patients, so are just trying to deflect rather than just saying this, or you are genuinely unsure how it would work in practice.

I don't agree with this, I've repeated multiple times I'm not totally against a ban of it was fair across the board but I genuinely don't see how it would be done in a way that wouldn't be full of holes for legal cases etc. you're saying it's a symbol known to cause offense, but the key part is to some not to all. It's also just a flag of a country, I don't see how you could say a flag of one country is known to cause offense to some so it has to be banned without that being discriminatory. Especially if someone examples are that it's so upsetting they literally can't be in a setting with one but even if you banned it for staff we can't police what patients wear for example. This is why I keep coming back to the key thing being behaviour and patients being supported when they're distressed and cared for, instead of over policing staff. It's hard enough working for the NHS.and we struggle finding staff. If we now say okay you get shit pay, shit working conditions and on top of that we're dropping all our diversity and inclusion initiatives well good luck keeping a workforce. This attitude of "just shut up and do your job" as though NHS workers are robotic servants isn't gonna actually bode well in practice.