Political badges should be banned from NHS uniforms

I’ve said many times but can say again. It is entirely and completely different to be surrounded by other patients wearing whatever pins and shirts and keffiyehs they like and being surrounded by doctors and nurses wearing the same. I do not need to respect or engage with other patients, I do need my children to feel safe with doctors and nurses and teachers.

But not to support minorities? You're happy for specific minorities to be intimidated in favour of staff's desire (its not a right at work) to express their views?

Funnily, society got to a point, not that long ago, where we thought that if a cost was unfairly burdened by one minority group but benefited the majority, we still wouldn't accept it because its a form of discrimination.

I don't think it's irrelevant that these networks provide necessary and beneficial learning which improves patient care and put on events where patients and staff from the community get to know eachother from all different backgrounds. I also don't agree with the assumption that all signs of diversity in a hospital are signalling, you can ban all of it from the NHS side if you want but if the issue is someone genuinely can't access a hospital if they see a pride flag or a Palestinian flag then that can't be guaranteed from a patient side either.

I didn't say they'll be handing you a flyer. I mean that patients may see for example the multifaith groups minora lighting celebration on the premises when they're there. Or the may use the hospital canteen during black pride month and see flags or any number of events where they'll see members of staff from all backgrounds learning about and celebrating eachother. These initiatives have a factual benefit to cohesion amongst different groups and help staff provide better care to patients from different backgrounds. A hospital serves the entire community and is always going to reflect that, I don't see the cost to benefit ratio pointing towards ignoring and banning all signs of diversity.

I understand that but there's ways to support a minority of patients requests over genuine fear they have of accessing healthcare and still maintain staffs right to expression within the rules of the organisation they work for. A patient with a specific PTSD trigger is an important thing to be noted in a patients referral to access healthcare and can be accommodated. I just don't think it's reasonable or practical to enact a policy that will affect all of the NHS necessary diversity initiatives and that a lot of patients when there are other ways to support the minority of patients you're talking about.

Staff members of any organisation can join whatever they like. Jewish doctors who like Star Trek. Brunette dentists who like Taylor swift. Whatever. That’s their choice and for them to decide when and how to engage with it. They also shouldn’t hand me a flyer or get me involved as a patient. Nor should they wave a flag in my face. I have no choice about if I should engage with them.

Anecdotally I am not part of a Jewish or multi faith organisation through my work. Totally my choice to engage or not.

How a HCP celebrates with their colleagues is irrelevant to patients and does not need to be signalled to them

Why on earth do I, as a patient or colleague, need to know who a Dr or Nurse likes to fuck? Or how they feel about who other people like to fuck? Because quite frankly, that’s all the rainbow lanyard crap is.

No thanks. Keep your religion, sexuality and politics out of public services. If you want to express yourself, do it on your own time and at your own expense.

But its not a lack of appreciation its fear to the point of people not getting the help they need. Its prioritising a want (to wear a pin) over a need (accessing healthcare) and those choosing the want have the power and are holding it over those with the need.

You don't see any benefit in that doctor being part of a multi faith network and celebrating with their Jewish colleagues? You think demanding that doesn't happen will actually foster a better community?

It's also worth remembering HCPs and everyone who works on healthcare are patients too. It's not two completely seperate groups, most people work on the community they live in and are accessing the same services they work in, are they as patients not allowed to appreciate the hospital showing they support them as a Jewish patient in ways they support or does it only matter for patients that don't appreciate it?

It isn't discrimination if applied to all equally as per the law.

I've agreed it won't be easy but you vere between saying its not practical and saying its not necessary, they are not the same thing. This action is necessary.

An NHS trust celebrating Hannukah does not make me feel safer if my doctor is wearing a pro-Palestinian badge. I'd rather neither.

It's not easy though, which is what judges have said..how do you justify regressing on policies of inclusion when you have one of the most diverse workforces on the country without opening yourself up to discrimination claims

I could read that and I already responded to you asking how you square that in reality, but you didn't address any of that. I know it's easier making up an imaginary world but real process doesn't work that way. How are the NHS going to role back on it's inclusion and diversity networks that actually foster harmony and community between different communities and justify that as a better solution? "Hey sorry that you've all got events and networks that show our differences don't divide us and inspire staff and patients to see how we can all still treat eachother respectfully even with our differences, what we need you to do is completely hide any trace of pride or recognition that there is any differences amongst people and pretend to all be devoid of background heritage etc"

Our trust does some fantastic Jewish events that our Jewish community attend as well as members of the multifaith network including webinars etc on antisemitism and supporting our Jewish colleagues. And stopping these will somehow be better? 🤨

Yes. Close them all down. Easy.

I 'hate' the inclusion via endless examples of exclusion. Just focus on the medicine and the patient and leave Eid / Chanukah / Easter / Ukraine / Russia / Mexico and everything else for people's personal lives.

Because I already detailed above the NHS has created multiple staff networks that currently have either remembrance memorials, religious celebrations, pride month, heritage weeks etc so are we closing them down too? Even if not, how does restricting their outreach not come across as a regression and counter to the NHS values of inclusion?

Having worked for the NHS for decades, this has always been the policy. It is not new news.

I'm happy to ban anything non-uniform in the NHS - not sure why that's controversial? Could say 'patient facing NHS roles' as probably it doesn't much matter in an office.

I can very much appreciate a Ukranian / Russian / American / Chinese / Nigerian / American / English flag might trigger any number of people. I don't think I'm the only person in the UK to have a visceral reaction to a specific flag.

As far as I'm aware, everyone who is pro banning the flags, is pro banning all the flags

Police officers actually wear poppies every year. They also have LGBT badges. Where did you get this idea that they don't?

But a flag is an aggressive political stance to you. Not to everyone. As I already said we don't have a no flags policy in the NHS, would it be simpler if we did? Yes. But how do you actually propose they ban one flag and not others without it being discriminatory.

Much more eloquently put than I've managed

Well then perhaps worth considering that easy adjustments to polarising choices would contribute to increased patient satisfaction. Someone can't change their accent or choose not to wear a hijab (presuming we all agree that being a religious person is inherently allowed), but they can choose to centre patient care as far as logically possible... by being kind and inclusive and avoiding politics.

A patient's mental health can be as important as your ability to change a drip. If a caregiver is trusted, a patient is far more likely to listen and respond well. So if you come at me with an (to me) aggressive stance on a political issue, I'm not going to trust you. If my daughter's physio or therapist or eczema doctor is wearing a pin that makes her immediately uncomfortable, she won't necessarily be able to tell you what she needs or listen to you when you try to help. Police officers don't wear political pins and I would class NHS and school staff in the same category.

You said "peddling back on a initiatives that celebrate everyone" so I queried that.

Again, the issue is not "unevidenced" hence the OP and comments from other posters. On the other hand, there is no evidence that someone wearing a pin is actually lovely. They very well might be but there have been plenty of instances of NHS workers behaving in unacceptable ways, including showing support for Hamas. There is no way for a patient to know and that is part of the issue.

I don't understand your point about MRAs, are you suggesting that because I (and others) don't think you should wear pins to work, we are equivalent to MRAs (by which I assume you mean those like Tate etc.)?

I have given you a clear breakdown of how it could be achieved and what would need to be considered. The only exclusions I've identified are those required by law. Its fine if you don't agree with my view, but I'm not sure the point of going round in circles saying I haven't provided a step by step guide for the NHS which considers every single stakeholder and scenario.

I think its been eye opening to several of us to see the attitudes towards patients that have been expressed.

What about union badges? I had a gold badge for 35 years union membership on my lanyard. I assume they are acceptable.