Political badges should be banned from NHS uniforms

I suspect there are plenty of healthcare environments which can't accommodate Kippahs and headscarfs anyway, due to concerns about them getting caught in equipment, hygiene reasons, etc, etc.

Nope. I have not said that every Muslim doctor has questionable intent. I am sure the majority are professional and excellent. However to repeat myself yet again, in the light of the animosity and climate of hate directed from Muslims towards Jewish people, the fact itself clearly acknowledged by the excellent (black) leader of the Conservative Party,.. yup, the thought and worry of the motives of my doctor would cross my mind. Outrageous that this should even occur to me in the uk.

Right but surely if this is such a major issue it's because soooo many people are wearing badges - so clearly opinion is split.

Kippahs and headscarfs can't be tucked in, what then?

As a nurse she wasn't in charge of the medical care though, she could have completely done her job without making her views known. Either she has freedom of choice and her beliefs should be accepted (which I believe) or it's all banned,.so which is it? I believe she was Christian, so can someone else complain about her advertising her religion in relation to her job or not?

Well I recognise your name from there so I'm surprised you're acting like you've never seen someone joke about or assume someone with blue hair is a TRA or adjacent. If so, you've skimmed a hell of a lot of posts that make that connection...

Who said badges mean we can't seek ways to improve everyone's care? What a reach..I think those wearing badges are in such a minority id like to see evidence people have to self exclude as though there isn't a single HCP who doesn't wear these badges - really? I've said already said I would be interested to know how solely banning pins would work and under what definition they would be banned that wouldn't ban other items.

What about the nurse who didn't want to call a man she? Why couldn't she keep her opinion to herself and just provide the care needed she wasn't there to give them her views no?

Correctly identifying someone's sex is pretty fundamental to giving them appropriate medical care

Interesting, I suppose it's just a coincidence FWR assumes an awful lot about people with blue hair then...

What's this got to do with FWR, it's not a hive mind? But hair colour does not signal political affiliations, no.

Opposing genocide == a Palestinian flag incidentally. There are many genocides. So a Palestinian flag means supporting Palestine. Just to be clear.

And for the thousandth time, I’m not scared of a doctor refusing to treat me because I’m Jewish. While not impossible, that seems pretty unlikely. At least overtly. I do however think that a healthcare worker feeling their political stance is more important than my comfort is problematic.

I am vehemently, intensely pro choice. I march and donate and am on committees and whatnot. I wouldn’t however wear my ‘abortion is healthcare’ badges to work - particularly if I worked in healthcare. Because that is my business for my weekends, not for shoving in people’s faces when the focus isn’t meant to be me.

But there's nothing 'impossible' there. Just wear your uniform. No badges/pins/political affiliations. A religious chain or similar can be tucked into clothing where it's not visible.

What's so hard about that?

What about the nurse who didn't want to call a man she? Why couldn't she keep her opinion to herself and just provide the care needed she wasn't there to give them her views no? What if her views upset other patients? Likewise the Darlington nurses went very public with their images that every patient will now know their political views. Which political views should be silent at work then?

Having blue hair is not remotely comparable to you stating your affiliation to a particular cause.

Interesting, I suppose it's just a coincidence FWR assumes an awful lot about people with blue hair then...

@Fancythatfancyhat 95% of the 580 people who voted on OPs poll agree with her that political badges should be banned from NHS uniforms.

Obviously you think you are right to disagree but the poll suggests a lot of the MN community think differently to you and many of us will use the NHS.

If you don't care about that then ok, it's pointless trying to make you care.

The standard you’re proposing seems impossible to apply consistently. If healthcare workers must avoid displaying any view that might upset a patient, then that would apply equally to Pride badges, white poppies, anti-racism symbols, environmental badges, religious symbols, and many other forms of expression.
At some point we have to distinguish between partisan political preferences and basic moral convictions. I regard opposition to the mass killing of civilians and what I consider to be a clear and ongoing genocide as the latter, not the former.
You say people may interpret it differently. Of course they do. People interpret all sorts of things differently. But the fact that some people dispute or deny something does not mean I am obliged to treat it as morally ambiguous. I don’t. For me, opposing genocide is not a political preference; it is a fundamental ethical position.
Nothing about that prevents me from providing professional, compassionate and impartial care to every patient, regardless of their views.

But there are no benefits except for you - getting to broadcast your views.

Your patients don't come to a hospital / clinic to hear your political views. They come to be treated. So act like the professional you are and leave your views for your own time.

No I disagree for the benefits I've already stated. Plus the fact that a number of characteristics could mean a patient will still assume someone's stance without a pin so the pin isn't really the issue. If a pin made you so uncomfortable that you didn't feel you could be treated by that person, how is waiting for another HCP a problem? Unless it's an emergency in which case I'd be curious why you're assuming I'll intentions of the wearer regardless of them currently trying to save your life.

More straightforward to judge people on their behaviour, no?

Sorry so you can assume every Muslim and Arab doctor would refuse to treat Jewish patients? Based on what? My example about black people insist ridiculous. I'm trying to explain to you that data actually shows that black people face worse health outcomes, particularly in maternity, because of structural racism embedded in the NHS and yet I still would think they're hyperbolic if they extrapolated that to mean they can't trust that any doctor in the UK wouldn't deliberately harm them. So I'm trying to understand why you can assume all doctors could likely deliberately compromise your health because you're Jewish based on what?

But what if it isn't easy for patients to ask for someone else or it isn't possible to deliver another HCP?

Much more straightforward to ask staff to keep their pins for their personal time, no?

You might consider these views 'fundamental' but other people may interpret them very differently to you and get upset by them.

Why do you think your views are in any way relevant to delivering care to a patient?

It may seem I'm not taking it on board because people either stop engaging when I've asked a question about their stance or completely avoided explaining themselves by throwing a red herring or strawman out there. I've simply asked, given so many items can be considered political, how does one leave that side out of work? I don't think legally we should disallow people from wearing a Kippah or headscarf for example which some find inherently political.

I don’t think anyone is saying that staff are wearing a badge specifically to make others uncomfortable.

Aren't they? There keeps being this question of why do people insist on wearing them when it makes people uncomfortable as if that's their sole intention.

Also I've stated many times that people should have to feel uncomfortable, I'm literally advocating for people to be seen by who they're comfortable with and surely a badge actually makes that easier if you're someone with a very deeply held fear of a certain opinion?

“What if a patient feels uncomfortable?” - patients can feel uncomfortable with all sorts of things. Some people are uncomfortable with Pride symbols, anti-racism messages, or a white poppy. That doesn’t mean healthcare workers should hide every expression of conscience.
I wear a Palestine badge and a white poppy because they reflect values I consider fundamental: opposition to war, violence, and the killing of civilians. If someone is uncomfortable with my opposition to genocide, then yes, I think maintaining that moral position is more important than avoiding that discomfort. I am never going to apologise for my symbols against genocide and peace.
The question isn’t whether every patient agrees with me. The question is whether opposing the mass killing of civilians is a value worth standing up for. I believe it is.

Exactly - that doesnt matter apparently 🙄

Btw - not to derail but are you a Helloween fan by any chance (just from your username? 😬)

Have you been in an NHS hospital recently? You're grateful just to get treated at all & not of the mindset to ask for someone else, regardless of whether the HCP you get assigned to inspires your trust or not or on a personal level.

It's fantasy land to think it's easy just to ask for someone else - what if there are long waits to be seen - or if there is only one person on duty for the sort of care you need?

The NHS trust can't do anything about patients making assumptions about the staff serving them, but they can do something about their staff not wearing badges that highlight particular causes that might not align with their patients beliefs.

Even if it makes thr patients feel uncomfortable? Your right to make a statement is more important?

@Fancythatfancyhat

do people really think someone wearing an LGBT pin wouldn't empathise with them as a straight person?

On the Progress and trans flags specifically, some people (in my view correctly) see it not merely as ‘not for them’ but as actively hostile, as the symbol of a movement that has:

• gutted women’s rights where they rely on sex-based distinctions,
• championed the medicalisation and even sterilization of mainly gay and autistic young people
• shut down dissent and undermined the law and democratic process
• pushed an agenda that has broken friendship groups and riven families

So it’s not just “those who like gay rights vs those who it doesn’t affect”, but more “those who support all of the above vs those who don’t”.

In my offline circles I don’t know many straights who are viscerally upset at this (unlike on MN), but I know quite a few gay men who are, at what they see as a destruction of gay rights and many gay youth.

But you've already conceded that some people might be upset by you wearing a pin, as you don't know where they are coming from or what kind of context they bring to that pin that you don't understand.

So why do you get to do this, in a situation where you are there to give them care? You're not there to give them your views, they have no interest in that. You are there to treat them.

Having blue hair is not remotely comparable to you stating your affiliation to a particular cause.

Muslim and Arab patients don’t need to worry because there have been no examples of Jewish doctors in the uk refusing to treat Muslim/arab patients. Given the recent examples of Muslim medics stating that they would refuse to treat Jewish patients, quite frankly as a Jewish person is it surprising I would question the intent of the intent of the doctor treating me and have to hope they would be able to separate their political views from my treatment? Do you think a Free Palestine pin would inspire confidence? Your reference to a black person feeling the same is ridiculous. There have been no examples of doctors refusing to treat black people. Surely you will concede that with the current climate of attacks on the Jewish community (burning ambulances and stabbings to name but a couple), you can understand the issue?