Thoughts on this article about being the childless friend

I'm surprised she feels this way at 64.

I do understand what she's saying, we pretty much lost our friendship group when everyone started having kids because none of them wanted to go out any more. It's especially difficult when your friend group includes couples because they have to get a babysitter to go out together.

We used to go on nights out all the time. Now if we do arrange anything at least one of the couple drives, because no one wants a hangover with kids, and they're always tired or have to get back to babysitters and want to go home by 10pm. It's just not the same and feels much less fun and free now.

The others meet up more often because they do kid things together, but no-one invites child free couples to kid stuff and to be honest it wouldn't be my favourite way to spend the day anyway.

We just found new friends, but most of them are older than us and have grown up kids. At 64 I'd have thought her friends would have been past the restrictive parenting stage.

Maybe?

The only time I have noticed this was when my husband's best friend, wife and kids visited a tourist attraction near us. He was really hurt that they hadn't told us they were in the area. If they only had time to visit the attraction we would happily have met them there but it was like they didnt even realise they were so close to us. We used to see them a few times a year but since they had kids it has dwindled we have met their 10 year old only 3 times and their 8 year old only once. There Facebook is full of pictures of them going out with their other parent friends but cos we don't have kids it's like we are of no interest to them anymore. We like kids and would be happy to meet them in a child friendly environment if they'd just let us be involved.

No, I’m saying that, in my experience, I’ve been dropped/excluded by people who were previously friends, but when they had kids it was like I didn’t exist. Always an excuse as to why they couldn’t meet with me for lunch say, but then I’d see them on SM out with their friends who were parents.

Just read the article - the same way people probably don’t wanna hear about my kids, I don’t wanna hear about ‘another disastrous date’. I know women with kids who are boring and childfree women who are also boring. Maybe you’re just a drain.

Yes, I work with a lot of women whose adult children are still so dependent on them and I find it very strange (probably because after my dad died my mum sold the family home and moved into a rented studio apartment so at 20 I had no choice but to "launch" 😀).

But maybe I'm lucky (as a childless woman) as my friends with children have never left me out or made me feel less important.

Having said that, I'm 62 and I'm finding the new grandparents really bloody tedious!

This is so true. Once your kids are adults, unless there is a genuine emergency, I really don't see why you cant be focussed on spending a few hours with a friend. But many parents now seem to feel everything else must be dropped the minute their adult child summons them. A long people here are actually proving this womans point

My kids are in their 20’s and I’m now relishing being able to not think or talk about them all the bloody time. I get bored with other parents my age so for someone who hasn’t got children it must be so tedious to just hear about kids all the time.

I do look for friends who, like me are over this parenting lark now our kids are adult or childfree/childless. However, I find that childfree people seem to be waiting for me to let them down and revert to type - it makes me sad that they feel this way and also slightly annoyed that I’ve been lumped in with parents who aren’t actually like me!

Not me! Most of my social life is with people who aren’t parents! ( even though I have two school age kids)

whatwouldlilactulldo She is single ,and has made a career of saying she wanted to be and of many proposals! I think most people will prioritise their DC and her situation isnt that unusual .

That doesn't make any sense. What about women who aren't parents themselves, are they allowed to be interested in other women? or women who haven't had kids yet, does that mean nobody has any female friendships in until they have kids? The average age of first child is just over 30 now - are you saying most women don't have any interest in making friends for the first third to half of their life? Because that's obviously untrue!

On one hand, as the author of that article said at the end, if you're struggling with being the last priority of friends with kids, making friends with other childfree women (or even with women whose kids are older or whatever) is sometimes a good option. However I can't see that segregating people more and more into narrow echo chambers to the point where we only spend time with people who are 'just like us' is necessarily a good thing.

I don’t think this is true, at least not universally.
As much as I enjoy being a parent it can be so all encouraging from day to day that it’s a relief to know that the conversation isn’t going to circle back to kids when I'm spending time with my childfree friends.

It’s just life. People often feel similarly when they’re the only one of their friends that does have children, or if their single in a group of couples or in a relationship in a group of singles.

Hmm. As a childfree woman in my 50s, I agree with some, but not all, of the author's points.

The general point that children come before friends is reasonable in an 'all other things being equal' sort of way. I wouldn't expect friends to put me before their children.

However, I agree with her that it was very rude to spend an afternoon together with a friend constantly on the phone to her daughter about a non-urgent thing, and to hang up on someone when your children call (unless it's an emergency).

The thing where parents drift into conversation that excludes non-parents is also annoying, but it's the kind of thing we all do thoughtlessly from time to time - e.g. drifting into 'shop talk' with colleagues when non-colleagues are also there - it's human nature, though a considerate person would be aware if someone was being left out of a conversation for any reason, and make efforts to include them.

I think part of the reason is that it's easy, it's easy to hang out with other parents who live nearby with kids the same age etc.

The trouble is, from my perspective. Those with children only want to spend their free time, even when it’s childfree free time, with other parents. I was excluded from many nights out/meet ups/coffee trips as my friends with children only wanted to do these things with their friends who were parents.

I never had children and think that’s why I barely have any female close friends now. Women just aren’t interested in other women who aren’t parents.

For me I expected some understanding from my friends when I had babies and toddlers and was sleep deprived but there came a point where I knew that I had to be prepared to give something back. I had to make the effort to take an interest in things outside of my own children and in my friends lives because otherwise it's a piss take.

I'm sorry but barring severe illness or disability no one with an older child needs to have an all consuming relationship with them that leaves nothing left for their friends. Besides it's unhealthy for the child. Your child, especially if they're an adult, won't suffer because you're spending some time with a friend and can't reply immediately.

I agree this lady doesn't come across well but, there is truth in that childless and single people are often treated as less than by some parents and couples. I want to caveat this with the understanding that of course parents and couples will prioritise their partner and kids. For single, childless people friends are really really important. If we don't see our friends we are alone. For people in relationships or with kids (of any age) often they will usually always have company so don't feel the need to socialise much outside the family.

I have felt an underlying vibe from some friends with kids that I'm somehow not a serious person with an inner life, that I've not grown up in some way.

I get that parents are often knackered and don't have the capacity or want to meet up much but to be on the receiving end of that kind of friendship can feel very diminishing. Some friends that mean the world to you see you as a distant addition.

I do have childless friends and single friends and those are more reciprocal. I think that it's hard to have relationships when one of you has kids and the other doesn't as they are such different places to be in, socially and emotionally. Neither side is to blame.

I also think that there has been a massive shift in socialising and sense of community. In my parents generation it was common to see friends and have hobbies etc whilst the kids were small and once they had grown up. Now, not so much, especially since COVID. It's increasingly common for people to focus only on their job, partner and or kids and there isn't anything left over for anyone else. So I think it's harder for single people without kids to find community and a sense of a place in the world etc.

As an aside, I've often seen posts from mums who explain a similar need for friends and community once kids leave home, they say they didn't really have time for this whilst bringing them up and all of a sudden there is a lot of time and space and they want to fill it with others.

I was the childless friend for years before my two were born, never thought twice about being the one to travel to their house so they didn’t have to pack the children up in their car, or work around their children’s schedules, or had any issue with plans having to change because there was a child related emergency. It’s common sense that you have to adapt when someone’s life changes dramatically and I was always happy to make the extra effort

I sympathise with the author. I think childfree people are often sympathetic to the fact that parents' focus will always be on their kids while they are in 'the trenches' i.e. young, but she makes a fair point that is replicated often (including on here), that this now extends well into the "kids"' twenties. She literally says in the article that she was there for her friend when she was suffering with sleep deprivation when her child was a baby, I think it's fair enough to be annoyed that 20plus years later her friend is on the phone with her dd when they are supposed to be spending the day together!

Lots of the examples of her friends' behaviour are extremely rude, regardless of who it is they are prioritising over her. By all means your kids can come (and usually should) come first in your life overall, but if you have agreed to spend time with person A, then barring emergencies they should be your focus for that short time. It sounds like she was only asking for the odd shopping trip or phone call, which isn't too much to ask.

It could just be a 'her friends' thing and of course doesn't mean all parents are like that.

I think this is true

I'm currently pregnant and most of my friends havent had DC yet, and right now in conversations I feel quite left out. Lots of talk about partying, holidaying, festivals that I'm not able to do. But this isn't because my friends suddenly care less about me, its just that our lives at the minute are quite different

I get her point and fair to be annoyed about someone hanging up directly their child phoned up.

However her conclusion that parents think their lives are more important than the lives of their single friends is wrong.

Parents think their children are more important than all of their friends (single or otherwise) - they would be terrible parents if they did not. It is nature’s way of ensuring the young are looked after.

This must be very, very tough for the single friend, but it is something it’s better to accept because the alternative leads to rupture in friendships.

She sounds insufferable and self absorbed. But I've seen a lot of this talk online, being childfree and hating on parents is very trendy right now

Also a lot of it is bullshit isn't it? She's 64, presumably most of her friends children will be 20+. They aren't complaining about childcare are they? Or a lack of sleep. She's either had 20+ years of allegedly shit friendship and just put up with it or actively chosen to find friends who treat her like shit? And what parent of adult children is rushing off to buy lempsip?

Her friends are probably bored of her dating stories and sex life. Life moves on.

I see this argument a lot, that parents don't care about their friends but I disagree. I just think it's fairly obvious that someone's child is going to be the most important part of their life, if your in a group of people ans they all have something in common bar you it's natural that conversation will resolve around that thing in common.

Yep. I'm a parent and grandparent, but as the friend who was the last to have children, I very much remember it being almost impossible to have a proper conversation (ie one that wasn't about children) with my parent friends until I became one too. So I'm very willing to believe her account of her life at this point.

I also agree that many parents still put their communication with their adult kids ahead of their consideration of their friends who are actually present. I've had to consciously stop myself from doing that.

I can see both sides, but like @MrsShawnHatosy I've also been the invisible friend and relative, and it's horrible. At my recent 50th I may have well not been there from the way my extended family acted. I spend much more time with my non-parent friends than old school friends with children - we've been friends since we were 4 years old but now the only thing we have in common is our past.

The other thing to add is that for those of us who don't have families, (in my case just a couple of second cousins) - our friends are our priority, whereas for those who have children, those kids take priority and their friends are an option. So there's an imbalance there that really needs working on from both sides if a friendship is going to survive.