AIBU to think dismissal during probation was unfair given autism adjustments?

Why don’t you just apply for a job you can do?

Not enough people have clocked this. The Op is a period flyer who comes in, starts 5 overlapping threads same day on work issues the OP has caused and almost never bothers to say thanks or acknowledge anyone who has spent real time helping. Zero self awareness every time and never willing to acknowledge their part in what has happened. Everyone else and the job is the problem.

As I have explained in this thread, I was disgnosed with Asperger's, now banded together as autism, not a condition on its own.

I have years of experience in autism due to my own condition, my experience in supporting relatives with autistic spectrum conditions and peer support (which I am bloody good at). So take it from me, people with autism are individuals, and some of us are actually lazy. We can lie too! Not necessarily well, but we're not automatically saints.

And I am "conflating the two" as you put it, because you need to think about the impact of excessive workloads on other colleagues. Excessive workload doesn't become magically achievable because the colleague causing it has a disability, rather than being incompetent.

Your responses here make me think you don’t take responsibility for your own mistakes, particularly you comments around transcribing a call. It may be that you aren’t a good fit for this job. In terms of asking what else you can do, that’s literally on you to work out. If you can’t make it work in one workplace then it’s your responsibility to find a role/environment that works for you. Your posts read like you think it’s the workplace’s responsibility to suit you when actually it’s the other way around.

That’s lovely to hear, that it’s working out for you.

There are definitely some jobs that are less suited to those of us with ND issues.

I have ADHD and work retail. Which sounds ok....but I also have severe depression and anxiety so not only do I get to try and mask the ADHD difficulties I also have to do the same with the mental illness which is..at times hard.

Do t get me wrong, there are definitely times I am 100% not suited to a customer facing role. Unfortunately as is the way of the world sometimes you just have to deal with it and persevere. Truth be told after 13 years in this job I know I'd find it extremely difficult to try and do any other job and to start again with training etc which I know with my very impaired memory is doubtful be able to remember/pass any kind of probation.

So I make do.

I will give my employer kudos to the fact they have implemented reasonable adjustments. For me that involves no morning shifts (originally due to being on anti psychotic medication that left me very sedated, now due to my timing of taking ADHD meds whilst I was under titration), no shifts longer than 6 hours (for 6 hots I get 2 paid 15 mins breaks -going over that I do struggle mentally), and fixed days (I work the same 4 days a week with 3 days off in-between whi hbgive some adequate time to arrange many medical appointments and also a rest in-between shifts). I also don't do one element of my job between the busiest time (12-2) and only one close shift per week as both of those were determined under a stress risk assessment undertaken by area manager (and as advised by OH) to lessen stress risk factors.

It seems to work cos I've now held down this job for over 13 years (which considering prior to that I was on ESA in ten support group and told I might never be able to work again).

Not every adjustment will be reasonable, and not every job will be suitable, even with adjustments. It's often a case of finding something you CAN do and hoping your employer feels the same

Looks like the OP has done enough wrong things by her own admission to lose her job without needing to add laziness to it.

Recording someone without their permission is unprofessional and damages trust. I had a boss do this with phone calls. This caused upset and some staff left when they found out. You weren’t a good fit and they’ve let you go. They’re never going to want you back so focus on getting another job. Next time ask for the appropriate methods of communication and do not record staff.

Everyone on here only has the op's version of what is happening

It doesn’t, but laziness isn’t relevant here.

Unfortunately much of what you say is true. There was a thread earlier about someone’s child being thrown out their uni house because they were autistic and people didn’t want to live with them.

ND people have many skills, but with increasingly rigid work practices ND people are finding work increasingly difficult. Like you say, what do people want, they don’t want to work with ND people and they don’t want us claiming benefits. What are we to do?

im always saddened when I see on MN people judging ND people. It can make you feel worthless. Then I think fuck then they’re nasty cunts and actually I’m a hell of a lot better than them, their views on me are worthless.

This is part of your problem

So how does being autistic immune someome from being lazy?

The counsellor idea is a great idea and would be a good investment.

But autistic people aren’t lazy - so why are you conflating the two?

Bring ND in a professional environment is difficult.i have both Autism and ADHD (although I didn’t know this through much of my career so certainly no adjustments). Whilst a work place has to make reasonable adjustments, these need to be reasonable for the work environment - you need to take responsibility- did you use auto dictation for when people gave you verbal instructions, people hace their own pressures which means they might not be able to prioritise your needs.

You need to work out how to help yourself in the work place. It’s always going to be less than perfect. IME people are more likely to help you if they see you trying to help yourself. A business is there to make money, not act as a support network. I get how hard it is, I really do. You’re in a situation where the systems are nonsense, where people act in completely bizarre ways, where you’re made to do things that are pointless in ways that aren’t effective. People put more value on your ability to ask about their family than on doing the actual work. You need to work out what matters in the work place and how to work with it, then you need to work out your capacity to mask to that extent. Despite what the graduate brochures say they don’t want your whole self at work.

I understand why you’re writing multiple threads, you’re trying to get peoples views on situations which don’t make sense, that’s how many ND minds work in navigating social complexities - mimic what others say. But social media isn’t good for finding thst kind of input because people say things and react in ways they wouldn’t in real life.

Look at getting help from a counselor who specialises in work and ND, someone who can help you with some coping mechanisms.

it’s hard, so hard. Remember you have great skills, things others find hard you can probably do very easily but you need some help navigating the social complexities and practicals of the work place. MN is not the place for assistance ND is not understood by the majority of posters and many are extreme judgemental and down right nasty when it comes to dealing with many of the traits of being ND.

Good luck

Civil service would honestly be a better fit I think or look for companies where they pay attention to diversity. As pp said, unless this is addressed by you then you’ll come up with this time and time again and fail probation and end up not being employable.

I'm sorry you have had a difficult time.

I don't think autistic people are hated. What I do think is that some jobs really require or value skills that autistic people find difficult. Communication skills, ability to change plan quickly and think on your feet, ability to anticipate problems or read a room. Other jobs, such as academia, really value skills that autistic people (generalising here) are more likely to have, like attention to detail and ability to focus.

I think part of the issue is that some of the jobs that we value more in society and thus give more status and pay to, need the first set of skills. And neurodiverse people want them for those benefits understandably, and go for those jobs, when they are in reality not a very good fit. And it can be hard for people to accept lower status and pay in a job that better matches their skills, especially if they were high achieving in school, which is a much more structured and forgiving environment.

And how do you fancy doing half of someone else's workload for them, without any commensurate increase in your own pay? Think carefully, because this is something I actually end up doing in my own role because my company employs lazy bastards due to lack of quality applicants, and I get resentful as hell about it.

I persevere with that workload because I am in a role that is vocational for me, so my passion is easily exploited. (Also, my manager is aware and buys me chocolate when I have been left in the shit!) Most people work to live, not live to work, and that's a good thing.

The only way forced inclusion can work is if you make it legal to pay disabled people less, and pay their colleagues more. It's a fact generally acknowledged in my workplace that I specifically deserve to be paid more, so maybe this will work out for me. But honestly, I think it will be more detrimental to disabled people's rights than the situation we have.

I'm sorry, OP to hear what you're going through. It's so hard to find - and keep - a job as an autistic person. I know the feeling only too well and whilst I do get in some jobs there's only so many adjustments that can be reasonably made, we can't be expected to go through it all over and over just get another job, sometimes it's not possible. Often settling for low paid work like I've done over life doesn't help either, no one seems to want an autistic person at work, really and when people finally give in after being let go from jobs and try to have the help of benefits, it's becomes a problem there too as people are just lazy, aren't they and don't deserve support? They don't want us slowing them down at work but they don't want to use any of their taxes to help, either relative to being the tax payer. People are ableist as fuck and would rather us starve and die, sadly :( Fuck adults who struggle to make a living, as a society over it we are hated x

This doesn’t explain specifically why you did not apologise. I am presuming the bit you didn’t state is “because […..] and therefore I don’t believe I did anything wrong”. That’s an issue.

Definitely this.

People with neurodiversity are human beings and are entitled to be given meaningful work they can survive on.

HOWEVER no one is entitled to any particular job. I agree with the previous poster who said this is the consequence of endless and excessive adjustments being given in school and university. I know of several autistic students who were keen to become surgeons. They were given reasonable adjustments, but difficult conversations had to be had about the realities of the job. Being a surgeon is messy and chaotic, and you need high levels of resilience and stress tolerance, as well as good people skills. No one has the right to become a surgeon, and it's not realistic if people cannot cope with high-pressure environments and chaos. Patients won't make reasonable adjustments to a surgeon who cannot communicate effectively, or needs a mental health break mid surgery. That isn't ableist to say, it's realistic. Saying to people with neurodiversity: you can do whatever you want and if you find it too difficult it is your employer's job to make it easy for you no matter the expense or unfeasibility, is unfair. Sometimes people need to be told: no you aren't good at this, you need to do something else.

But it is not unfair discrimination to say that some adjustments needed are beyond what can be accommodated. I agree employers have to do what they can to support people, and that everyone benefits from supporting diversity in the workplace. But there comes a point when what is needed is beyond what is possible- which is why the term is reasonable adjustments, and not just adjustments. Unfortunately I think that we have a lot of people interpreting this directive as having whatever they think they need. As PP have pointed out, work is not like school or uni and it will never accommodate people in the same way. Nor should it be expected to.

If you have a job which includes a customer facing component and you struggle with this, it might be possible to adjust this by removing that part of the job. If the whole role is customer facing, then its not dehumanizing to say it's not a good fit and you cant do this job.

For what's it's worth either you are really not competent to do the job, or the workplace's desire to support you was non-existent and their attitude towards you was shockingly horrible and broke discrimination law. While in one sense, if it's the latter, they should be punished, have you really got the desire to do anything about it? I'd honestly look for a job you can do, in a place with kind people who abide by the law.