Enough candles and petitions. What are we actually going to DO?

Perhaps he hates women. Most men are hiding their utter contempt for us.

support but ultimately Wait, for generational change? What else could you do?

I think there was a post on here that an M&S store had moved to being unisex. I guess that’s an easier option space wise that having male, female and other changing rooms.
mum not sure on public space guidance either but I can imagine many places moving to unisex if they can as it’s easier

I admit I'm a grumpy, judgmental old cow.

Several of my friends are or have been social workers and health visitors (and one of their daughters still is a SW.) So I hear a lot about how some people live, and it's very depressing. People who are helped, helped more, and then helped again, but still will not either parent in any recognisable way, take advice or pick up and run with things when help is given.

I could not do those jobs. I haven't the patience or the non-judgmentalism.

But I think the cult of non-judgmentalism is damaging. No government of any colour, it seems, every dares to criticise parents. Instead they criticise teachers (who, annoyingly, usually lie down and take the blame for things they are not guilty of) and other hard-working people and agencies. We need to start being frank about what is and isn't OK. Societies express their values and boundaries through judgement and once we lose that, we sort of lose our way and our confidence as a society.

Personally (so shoot me) I see a lot of problems with Traveller culture. I've had bad personal experience of it in a number of ways, and I know ex-Travellers who've told me their experiences and who have been ostracised for marrying out or wanting to continue with their education etc etc. I suspect that the law deals very leniently with this sector of society because the government is afraid of accusations of racism (as if they're an ethnic group!) and I think it's a mistake.

Certainly in the workplace unisex can only be provided if there are also separate toilets for women as well. Not sure about current guidance on public spaces

Absolutely Days, and I can vividly recall a particular poster on that thread scoffing at so many of us completing the form for a sentence review. It’ll make no difference if one signs or 1000 they said …

I’m also quite certain the traction this picked up on MN was a factor

The boys background and home life was a shit show if I remember correctly. It's debatable if it would have made any difference by that time

Whether making parents accountable would make them better people and parents I very much doubt it.

and that's why Jess Phillips resigned...well, one of the reasons. She has come out and said that the Prime Minister has all he requires to set a ban going with the big Social Media company's but he's dragging his feet for some reason.

In this case we do need to wait for the court of appeal.

However the reality is that people don’t want to hear the answers. Because the majority of them lie in parenting. And people don’t want to change the way they parent.

We shouldn’t be advocating bringing back the cane or other such corporal punishments, but we do need to reverse this trend where children now hold all the power and authority is a null concept.

And the absolute truth is that the majority of parenting in this country is done by women.. The same women who we’re looking to protect.

We need to start owning the fact that this so called “gentle parenting” is basically cop out parenting. “Use gentle hands; no we must be nice; don’t do that darling.” Parents marching into school demanding that their little darling is in the right, and how dare you take away his smartphone.

Smartphones in general need to be banned for under 18’s IMO. No child needs a smartphone. Children don’t need to be on social media, in fact it needs to be banned. I’d actually go so far as to say that social media in general is harmful to all of society and its eradication would not be a bad thing.

And then we need to look at the wider reality. Neurodiversity. Because neurodiversity has become out of control and we need to ask why. Because there has to be a reason.

This level of so called ADHD and autism absolutely did not exist 20 years ago, now every parent is looking for a diagnosis. And while some of that is going to be real, and while back in our day there will have been children who we can now look back at and say that absolutely they were ND, it definitely didn’t happen on this level. So we have to ask, is it genuinely the case that more children are neurodiverse now? And if so, what has changed to cause it? Or, and nobody is going to want to admit to this, is it actually the case that lack of parenting, lack of decent boundaries and discipline have led to a number of children who are simply unable to regulate because they’ve never been parented. Children who are in fact naughty children and have never had discipline.

I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle, i.e there is the increase which needs to be looked at, but there will also be the children who have been allowed to be labelled because it’s easier to abdicate responsibility then as a parent.

And then we need to hold the parents to account for the behaviour of their children.

Women are definitely victims here. But women are also 50% complicit in shaping the children responsible for those behaviours.

Sadly though all that’s happening now is that all toilets/ changing rooms are becoming unisex so it’s not actually helped the situation if anything yes made it worse!

Violent crime peaked in 1995. Maybe parenting has got better then, if it's down to "sloppy parenting".

Media hysteria about it has certainly got a lot worse though.

I used to carry a particularly effective, deadly oven cleaning spray.....

It’s not just under 16s though is it?

And once they turn 16?

Plus the update from Australia on their ban isn’t going as well as they hoped, as predictably as the teenagers guessed.

Women coming together brought about the clarity in the Supreme Court ruling on sex based toilets etc. I like to think I played a teeny weeny part in that movement. Mumsnet played a big part in that too, it was and still is pretty much the only website that allows open discussion on womens rights.

I think the sentences for the rapists are only being reviewed because so many of us signed the petition on line, thanks to seeing it on Mumsnet.

DD carries deep heat "for her sore shoulder"

I think we forget about one important thing here - these kids did it for fame and glory, to publish it online for others to watch. When will this social media ban for kids be introduced? Why nothing is being done to address this, just delay, delay, delay...

Have you posted on the correct thread?

We do need the noise and we need to change the message sent out about what is acceptable in society. Because if we keep minimising abusive behaviour against women and girls then it ultimately makes it seem socially acceptable.

This is the strongest outrage I can remember and it will alert judges and the CPS that women are finally saying enough is enough forcefully enough to be heard.

Make it legal for women to use pepper spray

Me too. Unfortunately many people don’t. Personally I think it’s better for everyone if we have a more balanced and healthy society but then we’re called bleeding hearts and do-gooders. But it’s about trying to stop it before it happens as well as punishing those responsible for committing crimes.

I can get a pair of Burdizzo elastrators! So you hold them down, and I'll apply the rings.

Men tolerate this behaviour from men.

Men, good men, need to be part of the solution.

Schools?
The majority of issues at schools are caused by shitty parenting - I sit on PX Panels and believe me the kids we are seeing do NOT have stable or even half decent parenting
I have no idea what else you want schools to do

Build more secure flats so women and children who want to escape violence behind closed doors can.
Breaking the cycle that this behaviour is accepted from males.