To wonder why so many male migrants have committed sexual assaults:even if they are evil people, wouldn't staying in the UK be an incentive to abide by the law?

It absolutely does make a difference.
They are coming from countries where women have zero rights, are seen as second class citizens and are property of men, and where rape and sexual violence is endemic.
They need to be not here. We do not owe them anything.

@Jane379 I haven't read the whole thread, but there's this. Certain countries eg Pakistan, have the death penalty for rape. So if someone from a country with the death penalty for rape, commits rape and is found guilty, they then cannot be deported back there.
It basically incentives rape as a way not to be deported.

You said this, ‘For some reason these “save are women” people look away when it’s one of their own’

You posted this on a long running thread where people are discussing whether or not migrants from some countries commit more sexual assaults than British people, and some are expressing concern they are, and that the safety of women and girls is being put aside to avoid accusations of racism, and other are saying, or intimidating, it’s racist to raise these concerns and all men are the same.

Can you see that popping that comment into a thread will be understood as an attack on the people on this thread expressing concern about women and girls? You are speaking not in a vacuum but in the context of an ongoing conversation?

I think what you are now claiming is that you are only talking about that subset of the 107 men. I am still not clear why you thought this was an interesting or relevant point. I don’t think the moral coherence of violent, rioting men is really the point. It’s certainly a huge tangent away from the substance of the thread. And again, the only reason I can see for making this bizarre insertion is to taint by association anyone raising concern about ‘women and girls’.

Yes, violent rioting men tend to be a bit dodgy and motivated by enjoying a bit of a rammy. I don’t think this is news to anyone.

My god that’s dreadful/ I’m too old to experience this I think - but I have kids, grandkids.

In my view it’s men as a whole need education- or maybe porn needs less access. In my day it was those mags! Not saying they were great - in fact I had a very bad experience due to a guy believing those stories - but at least there wasn’t more way out stuff to contend with too.

I don’t mean all men of course, though occasionally I wonder! And I don’t mean everything non vanilla is dreadful - but the toxic masculinity sites, and the quite wild porn depiction of women really does need addressing.

I already knew some of the stats of protesters. I also go on counter protests where it becomes very obvious who some of these people are - I’ve been called ‘slag’ many times - some guy hoped our ‘kids get raped’, mostly they just hope that we do tbf!! The protestors do use personal insults more than my side to get a rise and cause strife, but these comments, to my mind, just show exactly who they are. I’ve also seen aggression of course, and no respect for any wives they’ve brought along to admire them.

When they show me who they are I believe them - and all I think when they say they’re ’protecting women and children’ is that they want to save the rape and abuse for themselves!

I see a lot of liking for Reform ‘knowing what a woman is’ - I could agree in one literal sense - but what they also think a woman is, ie/ kitchen and sex fodder incapable of having choices over their own body, denied equality - then no, I could never align with that.

@BashthatTerriesorange- whilst I understand you can agree with one policy, then not the rest, and agree the same - in this case maintaining women’s spaces is not a good policy considering the dreadful other parts of policy around women.

You’ve misunderstood my point.

I didn’t say these men were feminists, nor that sharing one view makes people part of the same ideological tribe.

I pointed out that 44 of the 107 people arrested had previous domestic violence offences. When people claim to be rioting to “protect women and girls”, that fact is relevant to assessing the credibility of that claim.

People can support the same position for different reasons. They can also use a cause as a pretext while behaving in ways that contradict it. My post was about the latter, not the former.

This may have once been true but I think now that boys are accessing pornography, much of which is about violence and domination of women, I think boys probably do need to be taught this. They have learnt this is normal sex and the porn has programmed them to be aroused by it.

A read an article about boys getting erections when their girlfriends cry ( because they watch so much porn of women crying as they are sexually assaulted) I posted this in a group and several of the young women said they had experienced this. If you are aroused rather than saddened by a girl or woman crying that’s a barrier to rape gone and an incentive created. I had a friend in her 50s. As a young teen several of her male friends started to assault her. She cried and they apologized and stopped. Her reaction brought them to their senses. I doubt that would happen now if the boys watched online porn.

@MandingoAteMyBaby Are you aware that very different groups of people can express the same view and have very different reasons and motivations for that view? For example feminists support single sex spaces for feminist reasons, seeing these as protecting women and girls most basic human rights to dignity, privacy and safety. People like Matt Walsh agree with single sex spaces but ridicule the idea of people making a feminist case for this, which they wholly reject. It’s therefore absurd to say Matt Walsh, a vociferous anti-feminist, is ‘one of feminists own’.

Are you one of those people who thinks of you agree with someone on one thing, you are therefore ‘one of their tribe’. That agreeing on one thing means you have ‘aligned’ yourself with that person?

Are you one of those people who think if you disagree with someone on one thing you have to disagree with them on everything?

Because these are not mature or intelligent ways of thinking. They are ways of thinking designed to cause division and conflict, they are designed to create simplistic black and white ways of seeing the world that end intelligence and reflection and create a deeply tribalistic view of the world. It’s a thought-terminating way of viewing the world.

Why can’t we copy text from MN any more? I can’t access your bbc link.

Children do not need to be taught that raping a girl against her will is wrong.

I looked into this.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/4249798.stm

This was the preparator

They think its a big joke. Its just a pass time to them, something to do when bored.

"jack rolling" they call it (gang rape). I saw a documentary and young men were smirking on camera about the various girls in their hs class whom they had gang raped.

They were teasing each other about committing rape and blushing, the way kids might tease someone about a crush or first kiss.

This from 2005:

A STRING of rapes in Northampton may mark the arrival in Britain of a notorious South African violent crime known as jack rolling.
Police have warned women not to go out alone at night after five attacks in nine days by a gang who cruise the town centre in two cars.
Jack rolling became notorious in South Africa during the 1990s, when gangs of youths in cars blocked off streets and raped every woman caught in their net.

‘Jack rolling’ link to rape gang

I was looking at the SA surveys and I felt sick. Openly admitting to it

More or Less should be required listening for all

There is no mystery why this is.

These men are from primitive, misogynistic cultures. Compared to the west they are 1000s of years behind.

Look at Afghanistan. The men dress young boys up as women and then rape them, because they think its wrong to have sex with the women. Most of them are inbred due to the common islamic practice of marrying your own family member = genetic issues. They follow a religion invented by a man who was a paedophile, a rapist, a slave owner and a mass murderer, which portrays both non-adherents and women as being inferior. They think God will reward them with sex for committing atrocities.

Or South Africa. A country where 25 - 40% of men will openly admit to rape in surveys. When you consider the "shy rapists", it will likely be big majority of them who are rapists. A country where superstitions abound, such as raping a virgin can cure of of HIV.

Low IQ predominates in both places. In SA its 77. Afghanistan its 88. Below 70 was traditionally considered the threshold for mental retardation. By way of comparison, a dolphin is estimated to have an IQ of between 70 - 100. Bottlenose dolphins have a typical IQ of 126. These are all facts, check them.

These men lack the emotional and intellectual sophistication to function in a liberal western society.

These are but two examples of the nations we accept small boat men from, every day.

It is absolutely no mystery whatsoever why the conduct of these men is a big problem and a great threat to women in particular.

It would be more of a surprise if their behaviour was not a problem.

They claim they are saving women and girls.

I’ve been on MN 15 years and genuinely this is the most mind-stunningly stupid post I have ever seen. To think that rioting male thugs are ‘one of feminists own’. Staggeringly stupid.

Yes, that’s right. Feminists are concerned with combatting male sexual violence, and will analyze the factors that cause it, including religious and cultural factors. If you turn away from male violence because it’s ’cultural’ Or you feel uncomfortable speaking out against it due to the colour of the perpetrator’s skin, you have no right to call yourself a feminist.

Again. 6000 is a lot higher than 100. There are asylum seekers from nations other than Afghanistan. We see the devastation that happens here AND we have data from other parts of Europe.

And these nations rank so much higher in VAWG, yet no-one seems to think that it'd be an issue taking the men from these countries.

Like the 6,000 asylum seekers entering from Afghanistan into the UK every year, against a population of 70M ? Also a tiny sample.

There are issues here. You look at the wider picture things are incomprehensibly worse I'm Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria. Look at where FGM is the highest.

Very small sample size......

Again. Bad things happen here yes. But the data shows VAWG is miles apart here and the shit show that are the other countries mentioned.

For some reason these “save are women” people look away when it’s one of their own.

In Teesside, 44 / 107 “patriots” arrested for unrest following the Southport murders had previous for domestic violence.

I mean, talk about “per capita” now…

What do you think men are growing up learning here in the UK, think of the high-profile rape and murder cases we've seen in the last decade, violence against girls and women including sexual abuse and assault is endemic in the UK and the indoor sex industry, social media cultures, porn, sexualizing young girls images are all the thin end of a very very disturbing wedge. We normalise the culture daily, it's hidden in plain sight

I did ask her if they discussed this before marriage and she said they hadn’t. I did think that was ‘Duh!’ I didn’t know her then and I think they were both quite young as wasn’t that old when I knew her ( mid to late 30s).

Death for heresy/ blasphemy was outlawed in the 1600s in England for Christianity I believe. So quite a long time ago. And as Jews have had no homeland for most of the last two thousand years, they can’t have had a law to enforce death for apostasy for that long either, surely.