To ask if I’m a crap, ineffective parent, or …

Genuinely is a long game. Keep doing what you’re doing, he will learn over time. Mine did the hissing and stamping thing, even hit me a few times. Feels hopeless and futile but it’s all a phase and when you’re in the trenches you forget that. Now my son is 9, he’s been through 3/4 of the tantrum phases, would say it leveled out at around 7. There were some days I really hated it all.

My 15 year old daughter had the most amazing tantrums as a 5 year old, running upstairs to her room, bellowing loudly for ages, and crashing about, being cross for half an hour. I let her let off steam, be cross, process her feelings for a while, then like a switch, it'd stop.

I'd try to not react, stay calm and sometimes distract, but often it was easier for her to process it and then regulate it all herself.

She's now a brilliant girl who's on track for great things (Oxbridge stuff) and I have had no problems at all. My youngest daughter is similar now aged 6, but I'm used to it.

Have faith, be calm, distract, and it will get better ❤️

I'd expect a teacher worth their salt to be able to handle a 5yo being a bit angry. Besides, most kids don't express their feelings that openly with teachers. My 5yo can be quite emotionally volatile at home but his teachers always say he is exceptionally collaborative and reasonable at school and skilled at expressing his feelings verbally, while other kids his age are still lashing out and behaving aggressively when they're frustrated.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/217174632-the-ultimate-guide-to-parenting-kids-with-big-emotions

You will get a lot of conflicting advice. Might be a good idea to get one book that has good reviews and then try to follow the advice in it.
Eg: Olivia Pine, The Ultimate Guide to Parenting Childen with Big Emotions.

I hate that people use bedrooms as a punishment room, bedrooms should be a safe space. I also hate time out, way more effort than it's worth and just becomes a pointless battle. Removing them from soft play or whatever to calm down is fair enough, but expecting them to sit somewhere alone and upset is just horrible IMO.

What is he doing that he shouldn't? Can you change whatever it is into something he can do? ie 'if you want to play with the ball then you need to go out in the garden, if you play with it indoors something might get broken'. If he gets cross that's ok, if he continues with the ball indoors then calmly tell him it will have to go away if he doesn't take it out - or better still offer to go play with it outside with him.

The best way to distract kids is often to do something with them. Obviously not always possible right in the moment, but even 5 minutes of fun can turn things around. So much nicer than constant punishments and time outs.

With rudeness I find a 'you're being rude please don't speak to me like that' reminder is as good as anything. Doesn't tend to escalate if you say it calmly.
You need to model the calm behaviour that he's struggling with.

MN is big on punishing everything, but constantly punishing a child doesn't make then a good, kind, well behaved child. They need your time and effort, prioritise playing with them and doing things with them as much as you can.

I’m not sure if this is the right approach or not but when my boys get a bit angry (or frustrated / emotional), I’ve got a very small caddy we call the calm box and I tell them to choose something to play with to calm down. It’s not got much in it - stress ball, fidget popper, bubbles, sensory tube to watch and some paper/pens/paper clips typed thing. Then we regroup when everyone is calm and really briefly run over what’s happened and why it’s not ok / what to do next time. Figured I can’t stop anger (I get angry too!) but finding a way to manage it helps a bit.

The rudeness/attitude still makes an appearance sometimes but I just switch off so I don’t get wound up, one chance and the toy is removed or whatever the problem is, and I’ll speak to them when they aren’t having an outburst.

Hope you get some ideas to help!

Feel with not deal with - it’s really effective with my quick to anger ds. Sayings and statements like “you look really angry” etc and talk through their emotions rather than trying to correct them in the moment. He finds it hard to regulate and calm down.

It comes very loosely from the book which I think is called “the book you wish your parents had read”, I have it on Audiobook.

Not super helpful right now - I can go and reread it but it was amazing in exactly these situations. I didn’t want to not post as I have totally been there, my ds is 7 now and it helped me stay calm and manage it all.

Teaching children to express negative feelings appropriately is not telling them that their feelings don’t matter, it is equipping them with a skill that will make it easier to get through school, easier to keep friends, and eventually easier to keep a job. Being strict about not being rude, while also equipping them with the confidence to discuss anything they are unhappy with in an appropriate way at an appropriate time is difficult but worthwhile.
How you do that is really down to the individual child unfortunately; it would be a lot easier if there was some trick that worked with all of them! We usually follow up “No” with a true (and age appropriate) explanation so DC understands why they’re being stopped from doing what they want.

"Do this" is better than "Don't do that"

eg "sit quietly" is better than "stop shouting"

Best to be kind, firm and consistent

And stay calm yourself

This, exactly this. You’re getting into a battle of wills right now. Much better to redirect his anger until he’s learned to deal with it.

It's a stand off. Don't let him think you'll blink first. You're the adult and you're in charge.

It's fairly normal for kids to get angry at you when you tell them off. I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you find how he's expressing his anger to be rude, give him an acceptable way to show it and deal with it.

Talk to him when everything is calm (not when he's being told off) and say it's ok to be angry, but not ok to be rude. Everyone gets angry sometimes. It's a big, overwhelming, difficult feeling and then it goes away. Tell him that different people have different ways of dealing with feeling angry. It can help to name it out loud - he could say 'I'm angry mummy'. Some people scream into a cushion. Some people listen to loud music and jump around. Some people take deep breaths. Some people need alone time. Practice doing some of those things, it will be silly pretending to be angry and screaming into cushions together. That's good! Ask him which thing he thinks would help him when he's angry.

Then when it it all kicks off after he's been told off you say in your best no nonsense voice "You're showing me that you're really angry that I told you off. You're allowed to be angry. But you're not allowed to be rude. Let's try (whatever option he picked)" . He'll probably say no, but you push on regardless and start doing whatever option he picked.

It won't work the first time, or probably the fifth time you try it. It needs consistency like anything else. Keep returning to the conversation about anger is OK, rudeness is not. This is what you can do instead when he's calm and able to engage with it

There are two different issues going i’m here. One is his emotional state. The other his expression of His emotional state.

never in the history of humanity can a human be forced into not being in their emotional state without fucking up their emotional framework and turning them into adults with serious issues.

the goal isn’t to invalidate the anger. It’s to guide them to express their anger in a safe, productive and non aggressive manner.

demanding they stop their anger is not ever going to work. It’s about acknowledging and validating the anger and helping them regulate themselves.

we all know what adults who never learned to self regulate turn into

I think quite a lot of this age is about learning when anger and upset is a valid reaction to something and when it’s not. I don’t think it’s healthy to let them indulge in their anger all the time - that way you get the teacher phoning you up and pointing out your kid is a vile little horror.

No tolerance and consistency, he needs to learn that in most cases shouting and stamping is not an acceptable reaction to what are probably reasonable requests. Fine to be angry if someone’s smashed a toy of yours, not so much if it’s because mum has turned the tv off.

There was a period of about 2 weeks when they spent a lot of time « in the corner » any time we went out. I could find a corner bloody anywhere. Even the toy shop.

Yep! There's a reason people have been getting kids to sit/stand in the corner since time immemorial. Its because they need a minute to cool off away from stimuli!!

Also - carrot works better than stick. Reward him when he doesn't react like this when told off and be clear about it. "Well done DS, I know you are upset that I told you not to do x, but you've kept your temper".

Also give him tools to manage the angry feeling. Something that distracts can help. Count backwards from ten, squeeze the cushion off the sofa hard, put a song on. Don't expect him to not get/feel cross or angry its normal.

This, what is wrong with them stamping their little feet? My main issue was struggling not to laugh at things like that.

Its a long game!

The hard thing with kids is it can take weeks or even months to see results of consistent discipline.

You need a clear, firm consequence that is imposed immediately in the moment. Don't confuse his angry reaction as "it's inflaming the situation". If course he is cross he's been told off. Send him off to calm down.

What would you say if your childs teacher reported they had been yelling, stamping their feet and hissing at them when they were told what to do? Is that still healthy and acceptable?

I don’t think you can do anything to make him not be angry, if that’s how he feels in the moment. It’s very difficult for a child that age to repress their emotions, so him expressing his anger is pretty normal.

Watch some supernanny episodes! Shes calm yet firm. Even the most challenging behaviour does not get a rise out of her and eventually through routine and clear, unwavering boundaries the child learns the right behaviours.

One extra bit of advice i would give - stick to your threats. If you say you're taking something away - make sure you do!

I might be an outlier here but those actually sound like quite healthy ways for him to express his anger - unless he's hitting you or being physical or name calling, why should he not shout? Or do you expect him not to be angry about anything? I personally think forbidding 'rudeness' at this age essentially just teaches kids their negative emotions aren't acceptable, they don't have enough impulse control yet to choose kind words to express anger. When my 5yo is angry with me, as long as he's not name-calling or hitting, I just acknowledge he's angry and ask if he'd like to talk about it or be by himself for a while. Often he'll stomp off into another room and come back when he's calmed down.

Can you explain what happens exactly. A real example. Because it’s not clear enough for us to advise. But if you just want to know if it’s normal for it to be hard the answer is yes. But « ton of bricks » is the only answer. I had 2 with a 14 month age gap. There was a period of about 2 weeks when they spent a lot of time « in the corner » any time we went out. I could find a corner bloody anywhere. Even the toy shop.