To think parents are not teaching any independence?

Mine don’t have any social media/games on their smartphones, just the apps they need for their bus pass and their homework. That was the only reason i provided them with a smartphone. If they weren’t able to use their smartphones then no, I wouldn’t buy a dumb phone, because it would be a waste of money when they already have a phone for what they need. They wouldn’t be able to access their bus pass or do their homework on a dumb phone, so it would be pointless. I’d be pissed off that I’d spent money on smartphones because they were needed for those purposes, as that’s all they use them for.

Adults raised without phones would struggle navigating a bus not turning up without a phone. We had reliable school buses, office staff paid to stay behind to help when there were any problems with the buses and phone boxes.

I think you’ll find there is a lot of criticism of children on this thread and others on similar subjects on MN. Apparently it’s fine to criticise ‘youngsters’, but people of older generations.
Anyway, my children are very independent, despite having an old smartphone in order to be able to access their school bus pass and to do their homework on the bus home.

I wouldn’t give her a dumb phone , because there’s no point in buying a different device. She doesn’t really spend any time on SM now , so not sure it would make a difference.

If they bring in the ban at our school (very likely) it won’t be too much of an issue for us as we live 10 mins walk from school. I’m broadly supportive. But I think their phone gives them more independence so don’t really agree with the premise. My DS14 is very independent, and I am very non-helicopter. He uses the maps, bus app, apple wallet and internet to look stuff up and travels all over the city by himself by bus and bike, including to parts of the city he has never been to with us. He also doesn’t usually come straight home after school, especially in the summer. Him and his friends socialise, get buses places (free here in Scotland), and it would be a pita for all of them to have to go home first to get their phone - not everyone lives as close as us. I wouldn’t travel around without my phone and wouldn’t expect him to either.

In trials of this in my city they have lockable pouches the kids put their phones in at the start of the day. Seems like a good compromise position.

Be less on a issue wouldn't it not having a smart phone.

The modern world increaisngly expects access to one - change the world and I'm sure many parents would be relived don't have to buy/get a phone or have mobile phone bill for teens.

My kids school was like that too. They weren't allowed to walk to and from school by themselves until they were at least 10 or 11. My DH would walk to school along a main road for half an hour when he was 6. That just wouldn't fly now (and I'm not sure it would have ever been allowed by my own mother anyway). That would definitely have child services around now though.

I agree parents are feeding the decrease in grit, self reliance, independence and a work ethic.

I do however get a bit frustrated when people go on about not having phones back in the day. I do agree we didn’t but we did have phone boxes on every street corner and coins in our pockets in case we needed it. Having said that I do agree that secondary children are more than capable of getting a bus without a phone.

I agree. It's exact change only on buses here - it's easier to use a bank card or phone ticket than find the exact change every day.

Think DN who used school bus service I did as teen for a while had that pass on her phone.

DD2 now at college she has bank card, banking app - and emergency cash at bottom of bag just in case - she used bus app to find best bus back - several routes - and has train or taxi both of which use apps. Phone helps her be independent.

When DS missed the stop and then bus down went down motorway he ended up in next city - he didn't panic used google maps to get to train station then app to find train back and then walked back up - and phone bank app to move money to his bank card so he coudl pay for it - he could have got a bus but he'd had his fill of buses that day. His phone made all of that easier for him to work out making him more independent not less.

That’s the other thing. I would’ve been happy for DD to come home from school at a fairly young age (we did have a very specific set up), but not allowed until Y6 and had to fill in a form to do that.

No because it’s not a criticism of the children, it’s a criticism of the parents.

Its quite interesting in that the question was about teaching indepedence and a lot of the replies have been basically transport, food payments and school apps are on phones so they need them to be independent.

But im curious if bus companies changed, homework was paper, cards for food payment came back - would people give thier children dumb phones or would the children come home and still spend a lot of time on social media.

Was it more complicated though? I don't know. I think it was simpler in many ways.

I went out to dinner the other day and left my phone at home. I'm not going to be a slave to it. Anyone I'd have wanted to have 24/7 access to me was coming to dinner, so anything else could wait.

Isn’t ’kids nowadays aren’t independent’ ageism too?

Nice bit of ageism there 🙄

Golly, I thought I'd stumbled onto Gransnet for a moment with all the 'back in my day...' comments.

My kids have phones, they make after school logistics easier. Why would anyone want to make life more complicated for parents and children, just because they didn't need a phone back in 1964...

You had me until 'give the kids cash'.

Its a totally different world.
Independence isn't about a phone or cash. Its appropriate skills to manage in the environment/world a young person lives in .

Some of the things we did as kids would get child services at your door now.

Mine would love to cycle but it’s 15 miles away so bus it is. No ferrying them from door to door, I’m at work. They have an old smartphone for the journey because their bus pass is on an app on the phone, and they do their homework on the long bus trip home. I’m not sure how them having a phone in these circumstances is stifling their independence really.

its a different world out there. I used to hop on and off buses and trains at 11 but it really was a different world then. If they were invented we would not have needed phones People cannot give kids freedom and independence as much these days due to the world as it is now.

Both mine have phones and are at secondary. I wouldn't be too bothered if they didn't take them but both a short walk from school. They are useless for me to contact them as always on silent! They mainly get used occasionally to inform me they are going to a friends/the park etc.

The thing i always ponder is: do phones make them safer? A phone is more likely to make them a target to be robbed. (There have been some cases near us). When we were kids we weren't bowling round with hundreds of pounds worth of kit in our pockets. Also, they are massive distraction. Are they always going to be safe crossing roads etc. Even if they are sensible most of the time, teenagers in groups often make silly decisions.

They used to use them in class too for whatever game/activity asked by teachers. They’ve stopped that now thankfully, unless in DD’s words “we get a really clueless teacher”. 😬

Even with SEN needs- DD has ASD and dyspraxia (not great exec functioning) and we just did loads and loads of travel training with her. So she has managed when routes have changed and buses don't turn up etc. She walks, asks someone or knows she can pop back into school. This obviously won't work for all kids but I know plenty of kids at one of the special schools who do a two bus journey independently without smartphones.

I see the risk inside the phone as much greater than any risk you think you mitigate with one.

Schools need to get on board though. We have very limited online homework and that can be done on any device in the evening. They're not expected to be online during the day at all. A lot of the homework is in old fashioned paper booklets, they have a physical planner etc.

7:55 supposed time. DD is usually there at 7:45. Wouldn’t help when the bus arrives at 7:37, 7:38 or even 7:32 completely randomly. I’m sure some people would say that she should just be there at 7:30 , but then it does arrive on time , or it’s stupidly late, and while waiting in the rain/cold/wind for 30/45minutes /an hour won’t kill her, it’s not very nice either. I wouldn’t want to do it, so why should she?

Ours cycled to school

occasionally they would have to fix their bike (chain) or push it (puncture)

They like having problems to fix - they come back wet and covered in oil occasionally with a big dramatic story - again they like a big dramatic story. They encountered situations we had no idea about and they enjoyed telling us new stuff.

You just don’t get this if you ferry your teen from door to door.