the behaviour of most men

I concur. I also used to disagree with this view, then had a few experiences and hit a certain age and the scales fell from my eyes. If men aren't violent and abusive and nasty they're often incredibly selfish. I know one elderly man who others who don't know him that well think of as great. They don't know his history (wife beater, high functioning alcoholic, part time druggie, sex tourist, v selfish). His friends and acquaintances think he's lovely and one of the good ones.

I know a fair few middle aged ones, quite a few are doing the modern flex of "I have mental health problems" which conveniently means they do fuck all and everything is about them.

One that I know has a fairly new gf and young baby and she thinks he's wonderful. He treats her well. She doesn't know about his past violence and temper and cheating. He works away a lot so I think this means he keeps his dark side at bay. I imagine she'll be one of those in ten or twenty years blindsided by the behaviour of this "good guy" he's fucking pretending because it suits him to.

As someone mentioned up thread, the stats of sexual abuse and child abuse online users are staggeringly high. And the ones that don't do that stuff are usually v selfish and thoughtless. It's true it's true it's true. The pearl clutchers are just in some deep denial. And as for the whataboutery, it's true women can be awful, but as many have already said, it's rare they'll be violent or into sexual abuse or selfish to the point of doing fuck all for other people.

How many threads have we seen on here from women stunned because the man they thought was one of the good ones turns out not to be? I don't know a single one, well I know one who might be but I haven't spent a lot of time with him continually so, my judgement is reserved. They walk among us.

And before, when I was a pearl clutcher, it wasn't that I hadn't been on the receiving end of men, I had. It's just some very bad things happened and I couldn't deny it anymore and over time as I looked around at all the women I know I saw how their lives were turning out and what their men did to them too and it became roaringly undeniable.

And me.
It's such bullshit.
I know of 60-year-old women who are still chasing unsuitable men.

You're as sensible-or not-before or after it.

@YourPoliteTurtle You didn’t even engage with a word that @DontBotherJustChooseYourself wrote about some appalling experiences.

You just went on to defend your worldview. Why were you not able to engage about another poster’s experiences, does that happen often to you when men and men’s behaviour is criticised?

Why would you lie ? you’re on an Internet forum and nobody can confirm your experience? You could be sat there with two black eyes inflicted by your male partner trying to deny this.
And you probably are
You doth protest too much

The point is that 2 things can be true. You can have the brothers, nurses ,doctors and paramedics and those men can have a dark side. You are not going to know they are intrinsically a good guy, you are just assuming that because you are not in a relationship with them all. PP stated she dated Mr Ordinary 'good guy' and look what happened.

it's telling that you have to translate my different view point as me being irritated?

I am not denying your experience, but again, it's not mine, and it's not the one of close women I speak with. Why would we lie?

Why do you have to try to picture me as irritated, when I just don't agree with you? I have no reason to be tense or anything, I have good men and women in my life. I cannot imagine how heavy it must be to live in a world where you think half the population is your enemy.

I don't know why some women get in contact with so many violent men, and others don't?

@YourPoliteTurtle you sound very irritated with women talking about their lived experiences on this thread.

One of the men I mentioned who was convicted, worked previously for the emergency services. This is where he committed his offence, it was against a patient. We all know how difficult it is to get a conviction against sexual assaults on women. He got sent to prison.

A few years back I dated a domestic violence police detective who put his hands around my throat during sex. We'd never had a conversation about this prior, and if we had, I'd have said no, I don't want that. My ex-husband strangled me, so it's not something I particularly enjoy.

As I say, they really are everywhere.

How many threads from women who do not "allow" their husband to even speak with another woman?

The word controlling is used about anything and everything...

And many more who don't (yet) realise that their male partner/ husband isn't quite the decent chap they think he is.

meanwhile, emergency services, doctors, teachers, or just normal friends, normal families, dads, brothers, mates.. the world is full of absolutely decent men, who wouldn't even think to control, abuse or insult, and who even make it their job to stop those who do!

There are way too many sex offenders and dickhead, but it's completely ridiculous to pretend they are the majority, or that it's men vs women, we are amazing but they are shit.

Some of the most vile people I have had the misfortune to meet were women. And when you read comments from some of the posters on here, I'd be more worried about women than men frankly.

Solidarity, OP.

I agree.

Many, many of us have the same experiences, and no, we did not bring it on ourselves... I was 8 years old when the gardener my mum hired was caught with his tongue in my mouth.

Like many women, I have too many stories ranging from downright horrific to the general shittyness of men to go into on here, now spanning over 4 decades.

I do fear that there are multitudes of women out there with the rose glasses on, thinking their 'Derek' or whoever is "one of the good ones", when actually there is a hidden, and very depressing dark reality about who 'Derek' really is.

For anyone who thinks that Mumsnet is full of diabolical stories about horrific men because "people in good relationships don't come on here to talk about it", true, but what is also true is that there are countless women out there whose stories of a similar vein are also not on here. And many more who don't (yet) realise that their male partner/ husband isn't quite the decent chap they think he is.

Against my better judgment to remain single on purpose for the rest of my life, earlier this year I dated someone very briefly. We had a brilliant couple of months... then he turned. Out came the controlling behaviour, the put-downs, the sulking. Just another shit man. He was what some on this thread would have described as being one of the solid, 'boring' types. And that's exactly what attracted me to him. I thought, "Aahh, here is a rare chance to have a nice relationship with someone who will be reasonable. Someone who is grounded, realistic, and caring". And he was, until he couldn't keep holding up his mask.

I ended it and invested good money into a fantastic vibrator that won't control, insult, or frighten me.

I have had the HollieGuard app on my phone since an incident a couple of years ago whereby I got followed by a creep in broad daylight. That hadn't happened for a long time, and I made a rookie error of thinking that now I'm older and a bit plumper, I wasn't a target. I won't be making that mistake again.

Which leads me on to one last thing I would like to say. I worked for a long time in a fairly small company. 2 of the men there were sex offenders. One left the company and has since been jailed for raping an elderly woman, and the other had a prison sentence years before working there, again for a similar crime, which no one initially knew about until another member of staff Googled him!

Literally sitting here now thinking about all the other dickhead men I've had the displeasure of working with over the years, but it will be war and peace (not much peaceful about it tbf) if I start typing it all out, and that's before even going into the dickheads I've dated, and the dickheads my friends and family have had to endure.

They are everywhere. They work amongst us, they walk amongst us, they live on our roads, they're related to us. Every-fucking-where.

but again, it's all about YOU, and your experience.

Fair enough, but that's not MY experience or the experience of many women. Maybe I never had a tolerance for bullshit either from the start, so I am surrounded by the good ones. Or I am lucky. Or I accept that men and women can be equally bad, or equally good. It's down to individual, not sex/ gender.

what do you mean?

the simple fact is: not MOST men are bad. Bad grammar,but you get my point

Yes, but I didn’t ask what. I asked why isn’t it factual?

I know this happens for many women in perimenopause. I know we suddenly look up and around at this age and we are absolutely done with tolerating bad behaviour.

I find that really insulting frankly.

So we are all idiots, or weak, until we reach perimenopause? I am also sick and tired of hearing about the bloody perimenopause used to justify anything and everything.

that "MOST MEN" are evil, show bad behaviour, are abusive.

I wouldn't say the majority are over paid. But the rest you said.....
Yeah.

Similar for me, even due to my "BIL" turning out to be a serial cheater.

Why is it not factual?

that's why you are BU

You pretend that someone with a different experience is either lying or in denial. If you can't accept that you having bad experience means we ALL have the same, it's on you. It's sad.

it would be strange if people with a different opinion and different experience did not have contact with male...literally the point!

I am grateful that the behaviour of most men is a positive one. Or it would be a very grim world indeed. I am in the UK, not in Afghanistan, it's relevant!

I have also blamed myself like that. That being abused as a kid has made me a vulnerable magnet for the worst of men. But what is truly heartbreaking is that these worst of men exist everywhere, ready to identify my vulnerability. They all look and speak differently, come from all walks of life, lives in all areas of the country.

YABU

your experience is valid

but so are the experience of many many others. "most men" is unreasonable because it's not factual.

Yanbu op. I totally agree. Suspect those disagreeing are boy mums, or with male partners. Interesting to see where some of their opinions lie in another 5/10/20 years.

The man I woke up to find having sex with me was a sweet, sensitive soul. He has volunteered abroad to help people in war. He is attractive and warm and has a long term partner he adores. He also went upstairs at a house party and found a girl passed out in a bed and had sex with her.

Well in Genesis the word for woman is Ezer Kenegdo, which means ‘Rescuing strength’ and the word used for men in Genesis 4 is Enoch which means ‘weak willed’. No matter your personal view on the Bible - those ancient names didn’t come from no where.