the behaviour of most men

UK men must be a different species.

And maybe also the many women who put up with it.

Alot safer

There is always a rush of Not my Nigel because women dont want to think that their partner, bro or dad are indulging in behaviour that harms women. If they admit it, where does that leave them.

I don’t think most women can or want to comprehend the sheer depravity and entitlement of some men. Ignorance really is bliss in this case. Sadly , it often prevents progress and improvement being made.

I was really, really struggling with how to articulate the difference during the frequent, soul-destroying and confusing conversations I keep having with my own conscience.

And then you said that.

Mind officially blown; thank you.

Not quite fair I think. A bad grandfather brings up a bad father and a bad son, etc. So you could be in a family with a few bad men and think that's normal.

Havent let you down, is different from havent ever behaved badly or let other women down

You are not being unreasonable.
I was sexually abused as a child by a step father.
As a teen I had to pretend I was carrying a knife to stop a man from assualting me.
In my 20s I was put to bed at a party because I was so drunk, I woke up to a man having sex with me.
I am married to someone who has been emotionally abusive and financially controlling. He has gradually over years of couples therapy and hearing it from therapists he has accepted his behaviour was wrong and changed a little. To everyone else he is the amazing life and soul good guy! He is supposed to be one of the good guys. He called himself a feminist. I am still here because our DC have a good life and I don't want to mess it up. When they are fully flegded I will be leaving, getting a tiny flat somewhere and enjoying peace.

It was particularly interesting how many men locally her husband was able to enlist to rape her and remember they went online themselves to solicit an opportunity to rape. It would he so nice if what the vast majority of women were conditioned to believe about men were true. So, so nice.

A valid point but not one that will get much support on here. “Men” as a class can be described however you want…

Would it be unfair to label men as a class as such, rather than each individual man? Is that better?

ETA: I’m also not denying anything. Like I said , I’ll happily discuss bad behaviour in women, internalised misogyny (no excuse) and all that too.

I'm not excusing either sex and i am fully aware of the destruction men cause.
I am aware that the majority of all crimes are committed by men.
It is blatantly obvious that many men are extremely dangerous, but my comment is true women are 'guilty' of some of the examples listed , you can't deny that.
I agree with some of what the OP says but it is totally unfair to label all men when it is absolutely not true.
I don't live in a fluffy pink bubble of joy and i have come across some shitty vile men but i stand by my previous comments .

In my 40s. Have a wonderful DH and know a handful of truly good men. But the rest are awful. I have very little respect for 'D'F who treated DM like shit. The worst imho and most dangerous, are the ones who masquerade as decent but in reality are women hating toxic narcissists. Had a neighbour once who was the epitome of this. All the awful things that happen in the world stem from megalomaniac men.

Citation, please.

There’s loads on this thread.

There's always one . . .

Most men in her community were, it was still a small percentage. And I am not sure she’d be supportive of you tarring her whole community, as from what I’ve seen of that woman she’s back bone.

I bet Giselle Pelicot believed most men in her community were good, decent people even if her husband was one bad apple.

No, it is the ops experience which is very sad, it is not my experience or many other women’s as witnessed by the thread, men and women are the same the world over, most decent good people some bad apples.

Even the decent ones are fucking disappointing and never measure up to female friends in terms of how they treat you. I hate being attracted to men honestly it feels like a humiliation ritual.

Reminds of my mum’s friend who asked my opinion about her then partner. He was a dick and I tactfully said that and she replied with “at least this one doesn’t beat her”. Oh , well, great then!

Your point is lost by using sexist language which kinda leads me to think you're not sure what a power dynamic looks like

YANBU.

But I hope the next generation will be better at least in terms of pulling their weight when it comes to cooking, cleaning, etc and not being man children. I say that because my 2 grown up daughters seem to have nice boyfriends and male friends. Time will tell on that though (especially if children become part of the mix). However both my daughters have already suffered sexual harassment and assault so forgive me for remaining cynical....

So yeah, men seem to exist on a scale of crapness from psychotic to bumbling incompetence. And let's face it, the bar is so low that women have been socialised into thinking they've got a good one if he doesn't murder / hit / rape / financially abuse / abuse children.

Even the nice switched on ones generally exhibit selfish and entitled attitudes towards women at some level. And they generally think they are pretty fucking great because they look after they're own kids sometimes (as long as it doesn't affect their career) and cook a bit (using all the pots and fancy expensive ingredients whilst expecting a round of applause) or "help" their women clean the house they live in (although rarely cleaning the toilet, those unseen bits around the dishwasher or generally having a clue of all the tiny acts of tidying and cleaning that women do without thinking constantly).

And let's face it, they all benefit from the behaviour of the bad ones (which probably explains why they don't en masse try to do anything about it). They benefit because women are grateful for being with a bloke who doesn't hit, etc her so we'll put up with being exploited in the home, underpaid and under recognised in the workplace and under represented in places of power.

It's not good enough.

It can vary from country to country as standards of what constitutes good, or least decent behaviour is shaped by the society we live in. Misogynistic societies will automatically have a higher number of crap men than societies where things are more equal/egalitarian .

Is this a UK problem, men are shit? Because it certainly is not my experience where I live.
Odd.