to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

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Twice I’ve read that she prefers the 2 yos on screens??? God that’s depressing… to actually prefer your GC zombified & not interacting with you. How bleak

I’m actually cutting her slack because I don’t think her behaviour requires explanation or is odd.

She clearly has never been keen on the noise and mess you get with children, even her own. Lots of people feel like that. It certainly doesn’t indicate dementia!

Yep. We, as a society, need to give older women a bit more of a break. People are having children later and later. They are expected to work until their late 60s. It’s downright unkind to expect a woman in her 70s to be up for twin two year olds in the way that a woman twenty years younger might have been.

It sounds she was never really keen on small children, but tolerated them. The current situation is different in three ways - she is getting older, the children are twins, so probably hyping each other/running&screaming stereo, and the two years old twins are managed by the same person as 5 and 6 yo, which means even less control.

Where does the fifth child come from? OP said DSis has four children

How did your mother treat you growing up, OP?
To be honest, if my mother ever told me not to bring her grandchildren round, I would be devastated because I know that would be the beginning of the end for me!

I think it would be reasonable for both you and your sister to have a conversation with DM where you kindly explain that you are very sad that DSis won't be able to visit as often but you understand her feelings that the twins are too much for her. You could also mention her refusal to visit you limiting her contact with you all.

This would be a moment for her to reflect and change tack, but I don't see that happening. I don't think DM is being deliberately difficult: she just can't cope with double two year olds for the same reasons that she is reclusive and not keen to visit places they are not as serene as her house. Age seems to worsen these characteristics.

After that, you will just have to accept the situation.

I suspect the twins are gorgeous creatures but perhaps have been particularly difficult for DM in that she is older now than she was when she experienced previous 2 year old DC and they are in stereo, magnifying their impact by arriving as a pair at the same stage of development.

My grandmother was a very lovely gran and I very much had the benefit of her time and enthusiasm. Some of her great grandchildren also had this but by her nineties she found children visiting exhausting and my cousins kept visits with children short for this reason. She didn't have the bandwidth later in life for the activities her grandchildren enjoyed. I think this might also be true of your DM, but at a younger age. What she could tolerate a few years ago is not the same as now.

Big hug to you and your DSis OP. I am glad you can support each other in your relationship with DM as it sounds tricky.

On the grounds that banning your grandchildren from your home is a bit odd. But you know, don't cut the woman any slack by looking for an explanation of her odd behaviour.

No, but it's a bit of an odd thing for a grandmother to do, if she'd normally be OK with small children, and then become intolerant of them. I wondered if you'd noticed any other changes? For example, have you noticed she starting to get a bit impatient about things which usually she wouldn't bother about? It's something to bear in mind, thats all, because it is a bit unreasonable of anyone. I hope she's just being a bit crabby rather than it be early dementia.

This is the grandma I hope to be. Not too far from the mother I’ve always been. Boundaries? Good manners? Respect for others? Abso-damn-lutely. But fun? Mud pies? Games and giggling? Also, absolutely. I worked in early childhood education. Being active was a necessary part of the curriculum. There’s a brief lull, then letting teenagers run full on in football or other outside exercise is also necessary. It keeps everyone from getting cranky and the kids sleep better too.

Well in which case your sister can legitimately say seeing your mum and bringing the other 2 grandchildren over is not her concern.

I am 73 and if I banned my two youngest grandchildren from visiting my house , then I would find it reasonable that my daughter would refuse to visit at all and I’d have no contact with any of the children .
if I was your sister I would refuse any further visits to her mum. Your mum will realise the error of her ways when she becomes older and in need of some care from your sister and your sister tells her we’re to go . Your mum is cutting herself off from her family and will end up old , alone and unwanted.

OP, this thread is quite an experience.

DM sounds like she is, and has always been, very focussed on having an immaculate house and is not especially keen to leave it. She is also not one for compromise. In my experience of people getting older, these characteristics will not change and nothing you can suggest will solve the problem that she doesn't want the twins in her house. Is that correct so far?

If so, I can only see one viable option and that is, if you agree and can manage this, for you to include your older nieces and nephews in a few of your visits to DM. Then they get to continue to see DM occasionally.

If Dsis has some child free time facilitated by her DH having all the kids, she could pop in and visit but this will only be now and then because she has four children.

I think it is also worth explaining to DM that this is all she is left with if she won't allow the twins to visit/go to their house/meet elsewhere.

DM does not sound like she enjoys the company of children. I don't see this changing and I am sorry for you all. Perhaps when all her grandchildren are older, this situation can be revisited but DMs preferences for peace over people won't lead to a close relationship with her GC. This is her decision and not the fault of you or DSis.

How is her relationship with your DC? DM sounds like an unusual person and I expect this is not the only area of your lives where you have had to take her strongly held preferences into account. Is that how things are, OP? You sound very kind and level in the face of a very difficult situation. I imagine you are a huge support to DSis and I find it hard to understand some of the adversarial comments on this thread.

DM is entitled to do that. But she must have forgotten what 2 year olds are like. They sound like perfectly ordinary children doing what most kids their age do. My MIL was like this. Refused to childproof their home in the simplest of ways. Wanted DD and DS to be like the Victorian dolls she collected. Ornamental, unmoving, and silent. I’m petty. So, I probably wouldn’t visit unless and until all grandchildren are welcome. If DM wants to have time with the others, she can come to
your sister’s and deal with it.

Surely it should be her concern? If she knows that there is nobody to look after the twins but still expects your sister to visit, without them the only way this can happen is either for the twins to be left on their own or for your sister to pay for childcare. Both option are ridiculous and one of them is neglectful and illegal.

Your Mother is early 70s as you say. Funny you forgot to mention that in your OP. I think some answers would have been far different.

Is it fair to assume she is finding it all too much.

Is it too much for you and your Sister to acknowledge that and, find some solution.

God help her if she ever needed help if either of you cannot even see what the utter chaos that amount of children can cause at that age.

She is fretting as old people do and does not need that amount of stress in her life at her age.

Find a way to work it out as she is perfectly entitled at her age to want peace and quiet in her life.