to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

Your mother has every right to do this- it is her house and she can make the rules there.

but in banning the twins - surely she realises that she is cutting off contact with her daughter? If she is fine with this - so be it.

but give it a few weeks and I bet mother will be saying ‘why haven’t you come and seen me?’

mother must know the twins and her daughter come as a package as far to young to leave alone and no one else to care for them .

mother has made her rules and will have to live with the lonely consequences or see some sense .

I think it's fair enough. Not everybody wants noisy messy toddlers creating havoc and destruction

My MIL is mid 70’s and has looked after my children when I have been at work today, most of the time they are delightful. About 20% of the time they squabble, bash each other and generally behave like heathens…
When I thanked her she asked when I needed her again, I said that they could be a handful so I try not to ask her too often but that a day or 2 during the summer holidays would be super helpful.
Her reply was that yes on occasion they are revolting, but that she was their Grandmother so it was irrelevant, she loved them anyway and that she remembered how their Dad was with his siblings at the same age.
If either of my children’s grandparents said I couldn’t bring the smallest due up mess/noise etc then I simply wouldn’t visit, even if it meant I didn’t see them often.
Small children are noisy, they don’t want to sit still for hours and they also have fairly short attention spans.
Your Mum can choose who comes into the house but equally people choose who they visit, and sadly with your Mums attitude she will find herself very isolated.
If she won’t visit your sister the only other thing is to meet on neutral territory, I tend to meet my siblings and nieces/nephews at a national trust place close by rather than us all try and fit into a house. The children can run/ wander around and we have a coffee/cake, we invite Grandparents as well as they usually choose to join us.

It sounds like your mother is behaving “in character” rather than out of character and neither of you have realized that she’s actually just profoundly selfish.

Why don’t you try to have a conversation about that? It’s definitely the only conversation I would be interested in having.

It is one thing to realise you can no longer cope with small children. But to expect other people to anticipate your preferences and provide them regardless of the inconvenience, actually demonstrates you’re a bit of a cunt.

she’s set the boundaries she’s entitled to. If she loses out on relationships then that’s the natural consequences.

Point out to her she’s not going to see her much then and then that’s her choice. Shame for your sister though. I wouldn’t be putting myself out to visit.

Easy solution for your sister, just stay away and wish your mum well in her old age with clean carpets and radio silence for company 🙄

I think your dsis should just stop seeing your mother. Why on earth does she want to go see someone so wholly unsupportive?!

Not that I'd be banning my GC but at 70 I think not everyone at that age has the patience to deal with young DC that they had in their 20s-50s....I'm mid 60s now and am pretty shattered when the DG go home. It's pretty full on some days, especially in this heat for all of us.

I think you and sister need to visit each other.

Your mum isn’t interested and has made it clear young children don’t work for her.

She may decide in a few months/ years that she feels differently.

You couldn’t tolerate it for an hour or so even? Would you ban them?

Or she might enjoy the peace and quiet.
On MN adult children set boundaries and grandparents should be desperate to see them understand any circumstances.
Boundaries work both ways.

One two year old was a nightmare in my mum’s house constantly trying to grab ornaments, chase the dog, dropping food etc. so I can’t imagine how tough it is with twins AND two older ones as well. At least your mum is being honest that she finds it too much. I rarely took mine to my mum’s house as a toddler - either she’d come to me or we’d meet at places like the park or local soft play cafe.

Yes of course. But the sister yearning for a relationship with her mother/kids’ grandmother is not in itself pathological. It’s understandable within a family. It’s easy to give advice and I think this grandmother is quite cold and awful. But once in this situation, it’s hard to be as black and white I am sure.

Your mother is entitled to be "a bit of a recluse" who "has got used to living quietly". She is entitled to tell your sister "that the twins are no longer welcome at her house".

However - she should be careful what she wishes for. She is not entitled to remain a central figure in other people's lives when she makes zero effort to be in theirs.

So - is your mother aware that your sister will now be unable to visit at all? And that since she refuses to visit herself, she will simply not see her daughter and four grandchildren? That as the twins (and their older siblings) grow older they will forget her, and the grandmother-grandchild bond will be weakened and eventually wither away? Is she expecting to make the twins welcome again when they are older (when they will regard her as a stranger their mother seems to know well)?

She may well find herself sitting in that "neat, tidy and pristine" house of hers - alone. And it will be all her own doing. She may well rue her decision then.

Tell your sister to find some supportive playgroups and go to those instead during the days.

Your mum sounds incredibly unrealistic and unkind and she can be alone. No way would I be bringing the 'acceptable grandchildren' around without the siblings ... she can be lonely.

Not so ‘D’ M would not be having visits from ANY of my children if I were her DD or DiL after an ultimatum like that. If she isn’t prepared to visit and/or make concessions for toddlers behaving like toddlers then she gets nothing. I suspect that’s probably what she wants tbh.

I have a relative who did this. They are much lonelier than the relatives who welcomed all with open arms

Had your sister been visiting your mother a lot before the ban?
What was your mother like when you were growing up?

Two year old twins have got to be hard work. I don't think I'd want that at 70 either and I'm not at all house proud. I can completely understand why it's too much for your mum.

Traits get worse as we age and it sounds as though your DM has gone into the extreme of needing order around her. I'd try to spend more time around her to see if anything else is going on. She could be going into cognitive decline. If you can go there, without your children and open up conversations, that's what I'd do.

I mean, if the older ones just chat politely for a bit then go on their screens it doesn't sound like they will miss going to granny's house much. Why would your sister want such young children going onto screens anyway? (And what type of decent grandmother would approve of screens?)
They will have to just wait and see granny in a few years when they are less rambunctious.

As a 60yr old granny, I have sympathy for the DM.

I’m not remotely house proud but it’s the noise and energy from v young children, that I struggle with. One or two young ones are manageable but I can easily imagine feeling very overwhelmed with 4 running around, especially two lively 2yr olds!

If your DM can't cope with the understandable and normal chaos of twins, then she can't cope with it. As you say, she's gotten used to living a quiet life and twins and two year olds just aren't quiet.

She's not wrong to feel that way. Unfortunately for her though, that comes with natural consequences. If it means your Dsis can't visit as often, then it is what it is.

It sounds like your Dsis might be visiting there a lot during the day, so she doesn't feel as alone, and even if she does clean up, it's just become too much for your mum.

Let your sister play by her mum's rules for a few weeks and let her see how contact changes. She may decide that once or twice a week with the twins is okay, especially as they grow up a little bit too.

I don't think anyone is wrong or right in this situation.

Totally agree. Children play, make noise, throw tantrums and disrupt routines, that's all normal.
I can't believe that your mum has set this rule re the twins, your sister has every right to be upset.
When my GC came to mine, I fully prepared for the shift required. That is what loving GPS do.