to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

This all matters. Your mother went about it the wrong way, but it sounds exhausting to me with all those kids in the house, and I'm not elderly.

You are right Op. My mum also can’t handle much noise anymore now she’s older, after being a patient person for decades.

I wouldn’t cut off my mum for this. She does need to understand that this changes the frequency of visits until the kids are older.

Hopefully, the twins won't want to visit their grandmother at that point, as they wouldn't have built up any sort of relationship with her.

She sounds very Victorian with her 'children should be seen but not heard' philosophy. If she complains that she doesn't see the twins once they are older and more acceptable to her, I hope that someone will explain that she has brought this on herself.

@timetoban I didn’t use the words “having a go”! I think DM has other issues going on that aren’t being fully recognised. I stand by that. Why doesn’t she go out? Why is she ultra house proud? Does she compulsively clean and tidy up? Does anything out of place disturb her? I think you need to look into this. I think posters have given your DM a good kicking! However I’d look at why she’s unhappy about 2 two year olds because it’s much deeper than posters think. My dm had undiagnosed high blood pressure and she was intolerant of young dc too. Have you spoken to DM about her feelings?

Sorry so this sentence was not implying that she could leave the older two and stay with the twins? Sorry if I misunderstood.. "So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children."

People think their kids do not create havoc or have normal behaviour - but her mother was clearly OK with the older two when they were younger its just the 2year old twins she has pushed back on. All parents have a different definition of what is 'normal' behaviour' for toddlers.

Something touched a nerve then…

The hyperbole in your post is unnecessary. Saying the poster ‘hates kids’ and using a phrase like ‘childless old buddy’? The ageist and misogynistic phrases you have used throughout your post are really unnecessary.

You aren’t there so I’m not sure why you are so angry about strangers on the internet.

Why does your sister still want to visit? Why do you?

As DM is a semi recluse, there’s a mental health issue here isn’t there? She’s not behaving like a standard adult grandparent. She cuts herself off deliberately and is clearly not coping with life outside her narrow vision.

It’s all very well having a go at her, but there’s much more going on here than her family is recognising and they aren’t being very helpful. Why not visit at a weekend when DH isn’t working? His dm doesn’t need him 7 days a week. Plus the op might be around. Many 2 year olds are not that noisy but I can see why the grandma has an issue, considering she’s got problems of her own and is probably a compulsive cleaner too and tidy upper. Her needs are clearly not being considered and she’s got problems that are not addressed. Her issues have led to this. She’s closing down even more.

Yes, under the described circumstances, I’d be relieved to have an excuse not to visit this woman!

No, she hasn’t nor would I imagine she would but then I reduced the visiting time myself so she didn’t get too overwhelmed. I do not agree in the OP mum banning the toddlers, she clearly hasn’t thought about her daughter or grandbabies when approaching the situation and like I said doesn’t appear to be prepared to compromise. I also do not think the children are ‘running wild’ or sister isn’t tidying up or keeping the kids in check. Seems the mum can not cope with kids being kids and playing only wanting grandchildren to sit quietly having screen time and that’s not healthy.

i also wouldn’t be cutting the mum off, but I wouldn’t be visiting anymore unless all were welcome. When mums relationship suffers with her grandchildren because it will maybe she will realise she needs to be more accommodating and make the effort also

Toddlers playing with stacking cups or building blocks and dropping them all over the floor (intentionally or not) rather than displayed in a beautiful creation is mess. It’s also normal developmental behaviour. It also stops being a mess once tidied away , as OP’s sister does.

So they make a mess and your sister is keeping an eye ‘as much as she can’? Sounds chaotic - lots of people would struggle with a pair of marauding two year olds,
especially when their mother is struggling to keep an eye on them.

Well, obviously your DM has the right to prioritise order in her home if that is important to her and goodness knows 2 yo twins are going to be a handful. The reality is though DS is their FT carer and she can’t just leave them. I think it is unreasonable to expect DS to use significant portions of her precious child free (or child reduced) time visiting her mum though. The obvious solution is DM goes to DS house.
If she won’t, she must accept that the natural consequence of her choice is that she will rarely see her daughter for the next few years.

Your mums issue isn’t with not wanting the kids in her house. If it was, she could say she’d visit you both in your own homes. She just has no tolerance or interest in her grandchildren unless they’re sat silently. She obviously has the old fashioned view of children should be seen and not heard.

If I were you and your sister I’d say we are happy not to visit you in your home however you know where we live so get in touch when you want to visit.

It sounds like you both tip toe around her and pander to her a lot.

But has she ever told you to only come to her house without the little ones?

We have twins so aware they can be hard, but I suspect with 4 kids under the age of 6 including 2 toddlers your sister might be letting her 2 toddlers create more havoc than other toddlers because its too tricky for an exhausted mum to manage the behaviours of all four kids. 2 year olds go successfully into nursery settings - if the twins are running around all the time that would make life tricky. But I used to see it all the time in the park - twin toddlers going in two directions in parks so exhausted twin mums eventually giving up and giving them more freedom than what other parents where giving to their singleton toddlers. I saw it mostly if the twins were both boys too.
Your sister likely needs more support - to be honest I think she should negotiate dropping the older two off with her mum more regularly and just having the twins.

a mum of singleton and twins here. Twins do tend to bounce of each other more than any of my singletons together did. My first thought was A ban seems extreme especially banning some not all with no compromise. But then given the stage in your mums life and that I work with older people, I also kinda get it.

Ive found older people get they don’t cope as well with noise, movements of others in the house especially children leaping (I look at my 2 and 3 year old as I type) they don’t jump around but they don’t just walk from a-b like normal human beings there’s a little skip a jump, dive 🙈😂 so kinda get that she just can’t cope with the dynamics of toddler stage let alone two toddlers. Think she maybe hasn’t explained herself as well as she could. My nana loves all my children, I’ve a big age gap between my older ones and my youngest two, when she was a bit younger she coped with my kids much better, we would stay most of the day, with my youngest two now who are toddlers and now she’s older, she just can’t cope we still visit but we literally only stay for about 20-40 mins and you can see her looking wary due to the energy toddlers give off and that exhausts her alone.