not to help BIL with the kids while DSis goes away for a few days?

Then nothing will ever change and the children will learn that men can’t parent and parenting is all women’s work. Fuck that.

That’s what I would offer. I’d take them out for an hour and a half on Saturday just before she’s due to back so he can tidy the house.

Then she and he need to have a discussion going forwards to unpick exactly what these ‘challenges’ of looking after his own house and children appear to be.

what have you decided to do, OP?

I agree with this. Your sister will have peace of mind and be able to relax. Unfortunately in life, there are always sounder standards but I would not chose your sisters break to bring this up. There will be other times. If you can help please do for her sake x

4 kids under 8- no chance in hell I’m going over lol

Nah don't see it like thst at all. Children first. Sorry.

I'd be saying yes to let your sister go away and enjoy herself, and then suddenly get the most horrendous vomiting bug after she has left, which you obviously do not want to pass on to 4 dc under 8 and need to stay home.

win win.

Your sister gets to go away, and her husband gets to lone parent. You? well, sickness can't be helped, can it? You had good intentions, and you dont look guilty or malicious

@Iwannaeatapasty
Yes, it's a pretty pathetic situation! But sadly not all that uncommon.

OP I would be tempted to tell your sister that if he thinks he can't do it alone, get him to ring me and let me know what he thinks he needs from me. Then I don't think I could resist pointing out to him that these are things your sister does alone and you are struggling to get on board with the misogyny of the inequity.

However OTOH I must confess wrangling 4 young children including a 2 year old through 3 meals a day, bedtime & generally keeping alive is a hell of a job and it is only natural that there is some sort of learning curve. A compromise might be that you offer to go round on the first evening to help with dinner and bed, when he does it for the first time. It sticks in my craw but I do think 4 kids are genuinely a challenge solo.

But it would be far preferable if you could "help" instead by whisking your sister out for a leisurely meal & drinks one evening, as a sort of training run, so he can practice doing dinner & bed solo before she goes away properly. This is what sisters are for, surely?

In that case, you could offer to take them out to the park or for an ice cream for 1-2 hours just before she gets back so he can tidy the house for her, then you drop kids home and see your sister too

I’d say it’s the other way round, personally. The principle is way more important.

Unless you think this man isn’t just an incompetent parent, but a dangerous one, and that the children are actually at risk in his sole care for a few days?

Surely the issue is the children not the politics here. Do what you think is right.

Sorry I still Think it’s absolutely pathetic. So what if it would be his fist time with 4 children!? They are his children, it’s his home.

There must have been first time his wife was alone with 4 children, I’m sure she didn’t act like a complete baby over it.

I couldn’t be with a man like that, it’s just laughable.

It’s not about expecting more, it should be a given for a grown man.

The ‘go and stay but do nothing’ are absolutely brilliant ideas if you think you can do it.
your sister will be totally happy
you could reframe it to actually enjoying yourself by actually being of zero help, in fact, if you can pull it off, you can make more work for him. So, go, but ask for dinner, leave your plate, go to bed before kids, up early and out, leave breakfast mess, leave super early in the morning before he could possibly go cycling etc to do whatever it is you like to do, pop back and go for a nap etc

My siblings would mock my dh mercilessly if anyone suggested they come help with basic parenting. And they are very helpful when in town! But here they’d say hey x this is one of yours? do you know this one’s name? And middle name? Wow what a good dad!
dinnertime mentioned - hey x dinner is something you have to feed your kids every day, has wife explained that one to you?
hey x I was thinking of some bath advice for you as support. Did you know that you take their clothes off and wash them separately?

I picked up my then 15 month old DS from my PIL and he had the worst nappy rash I've ever seen. Blisters all over his poor little bum. I was fuming. I've also spent the day with them when they've had another DGC (toddler) for the weekend and i had to remind them to put suncream on him (28 degrees) and a hat & i also changed his soaking wet nappy. So it's definitely not just dads who can't parent properly when Mum is away.

Can you go and stay, but then just sit back and let him do everything? Remind him repeatedly that his wife can run the house by herself.

I definitely would not be doing this and my husband would be mortified at the idea he couldn't look after his own kids. It will for him good to experience what she does when he goes away. I don't know why you would have 4 children with someone who can't cope on his own with them.

Maybe I have missed it but does he know she has asked this of you? I think you have said she has asked because she 'knows he will struggle' but sometimes I feel mums think only they can do things or that their way is best. If she is not around to see what goes on then he is likely to find his feet and get on with it without being 'told off' for not doing it the 'right' way.
Also maybe he needs to be put in the situation to know how it feels when he goes off alone. No doubt he has gone off saying he will reciprocate but now doesn't like the reality. I think she needs to be bold and say it would be a shame then if he couldn't go and do his trips any more then.
I certainly wouldn't move in to help him. If generous I would pop in once to check.

Why should you be put upon to give up your own time to help this useless man?

Seems like he needs to spend more time with the kids on his own so he actually learns how to look after them solo, the lazy sod. And your DSis needs to insist on that.

#Iwannaeatapasty
I know, I know! But the DS has actually already prepared meals and stocked the fridge. Of course DS should expect more of her DH, the OP's BIL. But as he's doing this for the first time (I think) and DS is all anxious about it and OP sounds like she doesn't want to step into the breach, it felt like a good compromise - so that DS could go away and BIL could go it alone - to lower expectations about house being tidy. That wouldn't mean that this would always be the case but for the moment so that Dad can Dad, DS can relax and OP can say Thank you but No thank you. I know it's pandering! But as soon as the BIL and DS see he's perfectly capable, DS can stop fussing about everything.

@saynooo your sister doesn’t need ‘holiday help’ she needs a fucking divorce from this manchil who is incapable of looking after his own kids and home for a few days.

this kind of thread boils my piss at the shit women are expected to put up with or fix due to their shit men.

fuck no. And fuck no again.

I have mixed feelings about it. I always did this out of a self imposed view of my husband's incompetence. It is not always male incompetence, after 20 years on MN, i know there is also a huge amount of diminishing of male capability.

Are you joking?

Hes a grown fucking man. Why would he need meal prepared?

Why would she lower her expectations about cleaning. Why would he slob about?

Fuck me, the bar is so low, it’s in hell.