AIBU to keep my two-year-old at nursery when displaying increasing aggressive behaviour?

@G1ngerbread Do you always blow up what people say to ludicrous levels? It’s obvious to anyone who has dealt with dc that all this training doesn’t work for all. Saying no or stop - who cares?! Just don’t injure other dc! Of course nurseries ask aggressive dc to leave. They don’t want other parents going. I’m obviously aware this is the nuclear option but it happens. They are commercial organisations after all and other parents want dc to be safe. If he continues to hurt dc and smile afterwards, his empathy isn’t great.

Is he trying to get toys from other children? He doesn’t know how to ask and so pushes and grabs?

If this is the case I would teach him ( by demonstrating and practicing with LEGO etc). As a speech and language therapist I always teach requesting with my palm up and an outstretched hand. Palm up makes grabbing more difficult. There always is a trigger. Behavior is never random. When nursery has identified it then you and they will be better placed to adapt it.

Just quoting this post because I agree with all that has been said. Sounds like someone who has personal experience!

To quote this:

If for example you was to place a ball, Teddy, cup and spoon on the table and say “pass me the cup and ball please” would he be able to do that, with no other prompting or repetition? Or a Teddy, doll, brush and sponge and “can you wash the baby?

I used to work my way through this with a small group of children who had delayed speech. So we’d start with a cup; name it, play with it. No other objects. Then a ball. Hold it. Name it. Encourage chid to name it: “It’s a b..” so they finish the name.

Once they are secure in the names, ask them to give you the cup. If it’s wrong just hold out hand, place their hand on the cup to pass to you and say “Cup!” And continue, very slowly adding/ swapping with other items. No prompting or gesturing.

So you can test your son’s understanding step by step. Does he understand the word? Can he pass the correct item? Then add action words “ drink from cup” “ wash teddy”. Can he do that?

Its also a fun. way to spend 1:1 time with you and takes minutes.

i used to keep mine in a special bag and the moment my children saw it they’d drop whatever they did and come running!

I think there has even great advice offered here and OP thank you for being brave enough to post on an AIBU. I hope you have been able to glean some good ideas and support

Just to say that “no” can be triggering - I used to use the word” Stop” (and hand gesture) instead.

@VickyEadie I agree. No such thing as a playgroup unti around 67 where we lived. Younger sister went but me and middle sister did nothing. Yr saw numerous dc crying and as a summer born I had one term before y1. It wasn’t great and mums taught reading and maths because we missed out on so much. Yes, mums were stricter and no one had a baby attached all day! All that housework and shopping and cooking to do! How did babies ever survive?

I would introduce bottles personally and express milk. That way you know exactly how much baby is actually getting, feeding every hour suggests not much. That way your partner can hold/feed the baby more and you're not forced to neglect your 2 year old.

At the moment he is getting no attention and I know it's hard, I have 4 close in age, but you can't neglect the older child and expect him not to develop behaviour problems. He's gone from all your attention to none, there is zero time where its just you and him. Of course he is jealous and lashing out.

Your partner needs to be pulling his weight when he is home, why are you completely solo parenting all week? Does he not take the baby when he gets home to give you a break? He needs to, it's a piss take to expect you to do it all.

Nope - there were no playgroups, "Mums and toys" and so on when I was a small child from 1958 onwards. You're right, it was different times - most mothers didn't work until well after their children started school - but it was mostly mums and children at home together, all the time, until the child started school aged nearly 5.

Most mothers were incredibly strict with their children, mind...

This. I'm in my late 60s now but absolutely nobody had been to nursery (there weren't any) when I started school two months before my fifth birthday and it was just me with my 3 years older brother and Mum and then just with Mum when older brother started school. And you went full on to school - first day, all day and all week, etc!

We did have very small amounts of socialisation with friends/family's children, but it wasn't regular.

Your denial is scary OP.

Wow a lactation consultant, GP and HV. What part of the country do you live in with all of these people advising you regularly for a three month old baby. Because my GP referred me to HV and comfort sucking isn’t necessary. Of course don’t deny your baby milk. But every hour is comfort sucking and not necessary.

How unbelievably awful for you and I hope you kid is okay. I agree I think it’s actually like watching a car crash waiting to happen. Why is every other kid the Guinea pig for this behaviour waiting to happen? 12 incidents a day?!?! That’s crazy. It’s the callous behaviour after being all sweetness and light that scares me. There is a bigger issue going on here which the OP won’t see as the nursery are trying to be positive.

I can’t find the post that said not to worry about your son not attending nursery before school as she did never did and was fine. Life was very different, those not attending anything before school would have most likely gone to playgroups, mum’s and toys, been with family children etc. It is unusual if a child joins without attending a setting or regularly going to groups. I think you need some more support from nursery. Without being patronising to them, their experience will vary, you might have inexperienced staff or have staff with a lot on their plate already, I think you need further support from the senco. Biting to this extent is a real concern. It’s not your fault but I would have been very upset if my nursery child had come home bitten.

Dont accept there is nothing to worry about, push for some support.

This is probably the most sensible poster on here.

@Mumofoneandone Most people in teaching will have come across some pretty naughty dc and very much worried about ones who show no remorse. There are indeed dc beyond naughty! The idea that parents are all blameless is also ridiculous. Society doesn’t like parents experimenting with kind hands and other modern ideas. I agree that understanding where poor behaviour comes from and trying to improve that is vital but I can assure you some dc remain truly awful. Just look at the youth courts. Many teachers spot these dc very early. Of course I’m not saying the DS here will be anything like this, but I challenge the notion there aren’t naughty dc. If you have truly met one, you will recognise the lack of remorse and lack of accountability.

Please ignore posters being cruel and implying your child is a psychopath in the making. No, it’s not typical behaviour, hence the ABC, but it’s also not wildly out of the ordinary in a nursery setting.
It does sound like there’s an element of sensors seeking behaviour, especially as you describe him as physical. The nursery could try providing enough activities for him to get what he needs from a sensory point of view.
It is highly unlikely they would ever ask you to leave, and I wouldn’t really advise it unless he seems to be struggling all of the time (ignore people saying he should be removed for the ‘safety’ of others. Believe me, he won’t be the only one hitting).

If for example you was to place a ball, Teddy, cup and spoon on the table and say “pass me the cup and ball please” would he be able to do that, with no other prompting or repetition? Or a Teddy, doll, brush and sponge and “can you wash the baby?”

My children didn't go to nursery at all - preschool at 3 very PT and they were fine when they started school.
Nurseries are not always great for children - noise, overstimulation, lots of other children, lack of parents, long days, away from home etc.....
Might be worth looking at Kate Silverstone's book There's no such thing as naughty. It's a brilliant book which helps you understand a child's behaviour and how to make changes to ensure you understand what your child is communicating to you. I think it also helps as a parent to understand why your child is behaving as they are and reduce the guilt that you might be doing something wrong.
You can also get the book on audible - so can listen while feeding if that's easier!!

Mother of 4, here. I'm afraid this doesn't sound like regular 2 year old behaviour (even with adjusting to a baby sibling) and you would do well to stop downplaying it. He doesn't sound 'lovely', to be quite honest with you. His behaviour sounds disturbing. Please pull him out of nursery for the sake of the other children - it simply isn't fair on them to be attacked physically every day like this. If I was another parent there, I'd be livid.

You also need to readjust your attitude around your baby needing you. Your older baby also needs you - he is still very little. Breastfeeding is not the be all and end all, and if it's disrupting family life to this extent, it's time to consider a bottle. For the sake of your older child, who is crying out for your attention.

I do feel for you - it must be very tough doing it alone six days a week.

Decided to read the rest of the comments before I leave the thread as it’s making me so angry, and pleased to have finally seen that someone with common sense has commented.

My son nearly died at nursery because of a child like this. He shouldn’t be there full stop! You are right that this is not normal, no matter how much the OP tries to convince herself it is and everyone else commenting saying it’s perfectly normal is only enabling her further. Absolutely developmentally normal for a 2 year to hit or bite someone a couple of times (although mine never did) and learn from their mistake, but not to this extent. I just feel for all the other kids going into nursery today scared they are going to be attacked by this child - and it absolutely will be happening. Kids crying not wanting their parents to leave, kids sitting by themselves scared to go near him, it’s absolutely awful!

Well your nursery needs reporting to Ofsted because that level of violence from one child is not normal, no matter how much you want to believe it is. I can’t believe for one minute that the staff there love having a child who attacks others constantly, they are being polite in the hope you as the parent would have some common sense and take him out for them. Obviously that’s not going to happen. The feedback you are getting is called the shit sandwich - they give you a compliment first, then give you the negative bits which is the main message they want o get across, followed by another compliment. Unfortunately it seems you are only listening to the fluffy good points and ignoring the main issues in the middle.

Yes well at the end of the day they are getting paid aren’t they. That’s exactly the stance mine took until my son was nearly killed and they realised they might have a big court case on their hands. I am presuming the other parents do not know the extend of your son’s behaviour, I am confident if they did they would quite rightfully be kicking off.

The fact still stands, your child is violently attacking multiple children every day. The fact he is a happy smiley boy until he attacks someone is not a reason to send him in.
Any person with an ounce of common sense would pull their child out until they can find a solution. This is making me really quite angry actually, I’m going to have to leave the thread because I am appalled at your lack of ownership on this. Excuse after excuse. You know something seriously isn’t right because you’ve posted on here. Yes he absolutely may grow out of it, however I doubt it very much in the next year or so and how many kids are going to be hurt at his expense while you wait for that to happen because you want to stay at home and cuddle your baby all day?!

I know it's stressful but they develop so quickly- most little 2 year old "biters/hitters" will not behave this way at 3. So continue to take him to nursery and be consistant at home and soon this will be all forgotten.

He sounds like a sensory seeker to me. Have a read about what this looks like, you are probably one too.

And well done btw. Sounds like you have two high needs children there without much support day to day, it's just you 6 days a week, with no friends to lean on for solidarity or emotional support? That's hard.
What does their dad think about his sons' behaviour? Is he concerned at all?

The core message is getting lost in the 'sandwich'.

That core message is the 10% of the time he is upsetting the other children, injuring the other children, and causing havoc in the room, while distracting staff from engaging with other children.

You need to ask for the unvarnished truth. Ask for a meeting. Tell them you can handle whatever they say. Assure them they don't need to massage the message.

You might know it as baby signing. We used this with my eldest grandson with quite good results.
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that you would have a more relaxed child if you kept him at home for a while.