AIBU to keep my two-year-old at nursery when displaying increasing aggressive behaviour?

I have two diagnosed autistic kids (one now also being assessed for ADHD) and there are some red flags for me in the way you describe him. So while he’s too young to know for sure, it would be sensible for you to look up signs of autism and ADHD and just keep an eye out.

You’ve mentioned a couple of times that you don’t have good social skills…I’m guessing you know that ADHD/autism/all the other forms of neurodivergence are very strongly inherited? So if you think any of it rings true for you (try searching for signs in girls and women specifically, it’s very different) then obviously the odds of some kind of issue for your son go up.

It’s not anything to worry about, and I’m definitely not armchair diagnosing, just to be aware of.

If nursery felt that your child was actually a danger to others I’m sure they would be telling you to remove him btw, don’t feel like you need to remove him before they ask you to!

Sensory diet was a game changer for both my boys - we have all kinds of sensory toys and movement breaks just casually throughout our day, they do it themselves in school breaks/quiet moments and it definitely helps keeps everything calm.

OP, have you heard of “heavy work” and “deep pressure”? If you google those terms with “OT” or “occupational therapist” you might find some other things your DS enjoys which give him the same sort of sensory feedback at the rough play he enjoys

He is acti g up at nursery because he thinks you have replaced him with the baby.

You're home all day with the baby while he gets packed off to the nursery. You feed the baby in demand while he has to wait for attention from busy staff in a roomful of toddlers all clamouring for it. He sees you with the baby in the evenings and at weekends. He knows you're at home when he is away.

Take him out for a few weeks and show him that he's still your little boy.

If he doesn’t understand he’s hurting people what on earth is the point of the “king hands” mantra? How can that possibly be understood? It’s far more oblique.

I beg to differ - I think you might benefit from some parenting help.

Your attitude towards your second baby is basically that every single need must be tended to immediately. This is not realistic when you have more than one child. It is unfair on your older child, who is displaying quite obvious behavioural problems.

You really need to get your head around this. I have 4. I am into attachment parenting, I'm not a fan of leaving babies to cry, controlled crying, any of that. I wouldn't use those methods intentionally. BUT... sometimes the baby has to wait. Sometimes the older child needs to be prioritised.

No, I know they don't collaboratively play with children their own age, it's normal for them to parallel play instead. But most toddlers aged 1-2.5/3 are very interested in collaborative/social play with adults, or sometimes much older children, basically someone who is being more directive in play. Possibly I used the wrong word. But what I mean is it is expected developmentally for young children of this age group to want to show things to you, to bring things to you for help, to want you to watch them etc. They are usually curious if an adult is demonstrating a new toy or expressing interest in things, they tend to copy what adults do, esp from age 2+ (pretending to talk on a phone, drink from a cup, pretend to cook with a play saucepan etc) and they are interested in things they see you use, especially if they aren't allowed to have it, whether it's your phone, car keys, TV remote. They are normally participating somewhat in tasks like getting dressed and eating, even if they don't always want to stop playing to get dressed, and often understand very short, direct sequences like putting shoes on before going outside. They will pretend (or try) to feed you, and reach for things you are holding to indicate that they want them. They enjoy being shown books and read to, especially interactive books e.g. with textured patches, noisy buttons, or flaps. They tend to enjoy playing games with adults like rolling a ball to each other or building simple towers and knocking them down. They often enjoy nursery rhymes and simple repetitive songs, especially if they have actions. They will usually try to copy or be interested if an adult is showing an activity e.g. playdoh, drawing (mark making), stacking cups, marble/ball run, etc, for example handing you the blocks or ball to repeat the activity or wanting to attempt it themselves.

That kind of thing is normal social behaviour and play for children in this age group. Of course rough and tumble play, exploring, climbing, movement like swinging and spinning is all great and normal for toddlers to enjoy as well but it is unusual for this to be the only kind of play they are interested in sharing with adults.

Dumping everything out (and throwing things) can both be part of schema play which is also normal and healthy - you can often redirect more destructive urges like throwing into activities like a soft ball or beanbag to be thrown or things like a ball run or train track with a bridge the trains can roll down. But again it is unusual if a child is so intensely interested in schema play that they only want to do this and only alone, without adult involvement.

How is it pearl clutching to say a two year old acting callous (which is a recognised diagnosis for some two years old) isn’t a potential reason.

You may not agree which is fine but let’s not insult to make a point.

I work in behaviour services and the use ABC is really often misinterpreted because people don’t have proper training in really understanding what they are looking at.

A few things I’d be asking specifically based on the ABC’s right now is (most importantly) how people are responding after he does it. Without clear trigger before it usually means that he is gaining something from the behavior paired with being too young to understand how it is hurting other people. Often staff in nurseries reinforce tricky behaviour by the way they respond . Generally, the function of tricky behaviours are related to a sensory need, attempts or a hope to escape or leave and environment, a need for more interaction in that moment or access to a tangible object (toys). It sounds like tangible is ruled out. If he’s being taken to another area by himself (either escape or increased interaction 1:1) that may well be reinforcing it. They need to find ways to meet whatever need he is communicating n more appropriate ways before expecting any improvement (for instance, a regular supportive adult) and all the staff need to respond consistently. Quite often 2year olds just find it interesting or fun to see how different people respond . Also worth just considering the possibility of a sensory need and if he’s a child who might get easily overstimulated with lots of other children around.

It drives me mad at my sons nursery when some of the staff report my son not listening or so on and then when I ask how they respond to him it’s quite clearly in a way that is going to make him want to do the same thing again. 2year olds often just need a quick ‘we use kind hands’ and then redirection to something else , not making a big deal and some modelling outside of the incidents about kind hands ect through play. It tends to keep happening or get worse when people try and ‘teach’ or reprimand in the moment fo a child that young.

Dc don’t really get into collaborative play until age 3/4. So late on in nursery. Many cannot do it in YR. They really don’t get the concept at 2 and many won’t understand sharing or lining up. They just want what they want when they want it.

And here is your answer. You left out the important bit, he has a 3 month old sibling. He’s frustrated, and acting out because he’s jealous. Hopefully with consistent “kind hands” and lots of praise when he is well behaved he will grow out of it. It’s not called the terrible twos for nothing.

There was a boy at my child’s nursery like that, we were quite worried as DS was coming home every week with new bites from him. He was put on an ABC review and plan, they told me it was about watching and anticipating and removing him from the situation before anything happens etc. The biting stopped after not too long and I saw him about 18 months later at the preschool graduation and he was the sweetest little boy. I would let nursery carry on with the plan and see how things progress.

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I don't actually think it's what you need though.

More incidents on a day they were cooped up indoors doesn't sound surprising. It sounded when you were saying it's gone from 2 incidents to 7 that this was a general pattern of things increasing over a few weeks, not just one day to the next.

Young children often smile or laugh when they are doing something they know is naughty - it does not mean they are getting some kind of perverse kick out of it. It means they are testing a boundary. This is completely normal. He might need a clearer response signalling that the behaviour is unacceptable - redirection might be inadvertantly rewarding as others have said. They would do better to look for patterns in his behaviour/body language before an incident (this might be easier to observe on CCTV recordings if they have it) so they can redirect before the incident happens, and/or to generally increase supervision when he is near other children indoors, or try to ensure he is constantly occupied so that he doesn't get bored.

Some of the responses on this thread are quite frankly bonkers. It's common for children to go through a hitting/pushing/biting phase, especially when they have just gained a baby sibling, and the reaction doesn't need to be pulling them out of childcare. The parent should take it seriously and try to address it if it occurs at home, as well as looking at any developmental concerns, and stay in communication with the nursery (which OP is doing all of). If the child with challenging behaviour seems to be extremely distressed by the environment, then it might be worth looking at reducing time or removing them from said environment, but it doesn't sound like they are at that point yet.

I completely understand for the parent of the child who was injured that it can be triggering to read about these things, but children of this age do get physical with each other and nurseries need policies to safeguard children from it. Gaining a concussion from such an incident is horrific and must have been awful to experience, however I imagine this is very rare to the point it must have had an element of bad luck. You cannot eliminate all risk at nursery, and toddlers hitting or pushing each other doesn't usually cause concussion.

I don't think that physical play with toddlers like throwing them around, tickling etc counts as "play fighting" and it has lots of benefits apparently, in any case I certainly would not stop a form of play which he enjoys and engages with, as positive supportive relationships with adults who love him are incredibly important for young children. I think some wording by OP is being taken out of context by other posters and exaggerated, although of course this might be my interpretation.

I did look at the ASQ for 27 months and am a bit confused about saying DC meets all the criteria for communication if he will not follow directions, as four of the six questions are related to following simple directions, the other two are using pronouns correctly and putting 3-4 words together, which I am not sure if DC is doing (you said he has started putting words together "sometimes"). But even if he was doing both of those things consistently (not "sometimes") the points for those two questions do not take him out of the dark shaded area, which indicates further investigation is likely to be needed.

The lack of any other collaborative play is extremely unusual - have you done an M-CHAT questionnaire? That might be one to discuss with the health visitor as some of the questions can be a bit ambiguous, but the versions for HCPs have much more specific clarifications with examples.

It's Makaton not marathon.

Very young children don't really understand the "no" or "less" or "minus" concept. In a way, they interpret both yes&no and more&less as YES and MORE.

That is, as far as their language acquisition is concerned, they don't really yet have an "off button" (there is evidence on this / experimental research based on Piagetian developmental principles). It's why positive reinforcement (praise) is more effective than negative reinforcement (which still provides some attention and, to the attention-hungry child, is much better than nothing).
You could try being very sad when he acts inappropriately. Downturned mouth and sad eyes (over acting) and in v sad & lowkey voice saying things like: "X makes mummy very sad when X hurts grandad/ bites Y/ pushes Z" ... & on repeat ... "mummy is very very sad when X does rough things to A.N.Other" ... and "Daddy gets sad, too. Don't you Daddy? When X is rough? When X hurts somebody?" Daddy also overacts in agreement: "Yes, Daddy is very very sad when that happens". Et cetera.
When Nursery Staff report his behaviour to you, be "more in sorrow than in anger". Look at the staff, NOT at your son, when they are telling you. Freeze him out a bit (cruel to be kind). Apologise to them, assure that you'll be further discussing "the unwanted behaviour" at home with your DH. Support the staff with your speech and actions - so that DS sees this.
Meanwhile, EVERY TIME you catch him being kind and gentle, over act the praise and joy. Ladle it on with a trowel. It won't go amiss.
ANY attention is better than NO attention. Makes sure you put the message that you want in with the TYPE of attention he gets.
"Catch Him Being Good" and Praise Him, even better, Touch And Praise - i.e. touch him gently on the cheek or rub his arm or back and say "well done" or "good boy", etc. You and your DH need to make very very sure he is getting at least as much (postive) attention as the new baby.
Good luck.

My 2 year old granddaughter was one of the victims of such a child. Being bitten, hit or kicked by another 2 year old, seemingly out of the blue and also whilst smiling. As in your case a trigger was not identified but he had far more one to one positive attention both to try and avoid such situations, and indeed afterwards. While the other victims received far less, even when injured and upset. Some of the other children left the nursery. But when my granddaughter, repeating what the nursery staff said, "oh X doesn't mean it, he is just upset by something" and this had the result in making my granddaughter feel guilty for being bitten ect as she witnessed X being aggressive towards her. This once happened when the children were being collected and her parents witnessed first hand how all the attention was given to the biter and not the victim, So it was time to taker her out also.

I should say I am an foster carer now and care for children who have complex needs and behavioural issues, so this is no way supposed to condemn the child or the OP, believe me some of those I care for have done much worse. But I do believe there has to be some sort of punishment, because removing the child can offer appear to be a reward for them rather than a punishment. And those that have been bitten or kicked receive less attention as everything is focused on the child who has hurt them (and after all the staff cannot be everywhere). Hope that makes sense.

Biting and hitting people at home, sounds like you need to speak to GP to see if any parenting classes are available before nursery tell you they can no longer have them as they are a danger to others.

She doesn't need 'a break', she needs to wake up and remember she has 2 children, not 1, and that her older but still very young child's needs are currently being severely neglected.
Totally agree with your first paragraph though.

2 year olds are not callous or scary. I’ve worked with children in various capacities and roles, and this is really not rare behaviour. It’s not typical, but there is no need to clutch pearls. It very much sounds like either sensory seeking behaviour, or a child with either communication, or social communication difficulties. I am not saying it is fair or right for the other children but people here are overreacting massively.

You are wrong. HV will absolutely advise to let the baby latch either for comfort or food whenever they want. They would never advise not to let a 3 month old comfort feed.

It is also really not strange to have a GP and HV. Lactation consultant will be private I imagine.